Vintage Outerwear: Threads of the Past

handymike · Dec 15, 2020

I’ve never seen a vintage Schott version of this model, only the newer remakes.
Post up Jon!

marker2037 · Dec 16, 2020

I would love to see a Schott original equivalent to that Beck. I don't think I've ever seen a Schott that old to be honest.

jonbuilder · Dec 16, 2020

What I am referring to is the first motorcycle jacket Schott made in 1928. It was horsehide cross zip with a single D- pocket with a patch pocket over the D-pocket. I do not remember the model number but Schott still makes versions of it. I have read on vintage jacket blogs that Schott made jackets for Beck. Beck was not a jacket maker they were a jacket retailer like Sears and Wards. I am not a student or follower of Schott. There are threads on the TFL that go into Schott's history and conjecture over what Schott claims. My point the Beck jacket in question was made by Schott for Beck based on their first motorcycle jacket made under the perfecto label. I would classify the first Schott perfector jacket as the original jacket and the Beck Northeaster flying togs a reproduction of the original perfecto jacket. I have never run across an original first Schott perfecto jacket. Maybe monitor will come to my aid, he is up to speed with Schott's history. I would think an original first Schott jacket in similar condition is more valuable than a Beck Northeaster jacket.

dannyk · Dec 16, 2020

jonbuilder said:
What I am referring to is the first motorcycle jacket Schott made in 1928. It was horsehide cross zip with a single D- pocket with a patch pocket over the D-pocket. I do not remember the model number but Schott still makes versions of it. I have read on vintage jacket blogs that Schott made jackets for Beck. Beck was not a jacket maker they were a jacket retailer like Sears and Wards. I am not a student or follower of Schott. There are threads on the TFL that go into Schott's history and conjecture over what Schott claims. My point the Beck jacket in question was made by Schott for Beck based on their first motorcycle jacket made under the perfecto label. I would classify the first Schott perfector jacket as the original jacket and the Beck Northeaster flying togs a reproduction of the original perfecto jacket. I have never run across an original first Schott perfecto jacket. Maybe monitor will come to my aid, he is up to speed with Schott's history. I would think an original first Schott jacket in similar condition is more valuable than a Beck Northeaster jacket.

As far as I know this is correct. As far as I know the most famous style d pocket really was a Schott and made in 1928. All the other claims aside that one does seem to be universally accepted as actually true. From there they diverged into the perfecto as we know it amongst all their other designs and workwear they started as. Beck then wanted that design with their label and they made this for them. The Beck seems to be the more famous of the two now because it saw a much larger retail and more examples of it survived the times. If anyone could find those really early schott d pockets intact the price would be beyond belief. But on the other hand for some of the models and prices we’ve seen over the years if ever a jacket would be “worth it”, surely that would be the one.

MichaelRhB · Dec 16, 2020

tmitchell59 said:
Yes indeed. They are just difficult to find.

I have seen this Hercules with different labels. Late 40s Eisenhower style jacket complete with American Legion pin.

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I saw Ward Cleaver wear one of these on more than one episode.

jonbuilder · Dec 16, 2020

Currently, Schott uses model # 628 for the design of their jackets after their original 1928 D-pocket. I do not know If they used 628 for the first jacket

handymike · Dec 16, 2020

I would love to see this original jacket at some point.

jonbuilder · Dec 16, 2020

Mike: You got me interested in seeing an original 1928 Schott jacket myself. I will ask on the Schott information forum if they can post a picture of one. If they do I will copy the picture here.

dannyk · Dec 16, 2020

From the Tanaka Schott book. They were not exact matches. This was the earliest Schott D pocket in the book. Followed by the earliest surviving Beck. The Schott doesn’t have an exact year but based on the label used it’s pre-WW2 a variation of this Beck was used from 1941-to sometime in the 50s

Monitor · Dec 16, 2020

jonbuilder said:
What I am referring to is the first motorcycle jacket Schott made in 1928. It was horsehide cross zip with a single D- pocket with a patch pocket over the D-pocket. I do not remember the model number but Schott still makes versions of it. I have read on vintage jacket blogs that Schott made jackets for Beck. Beck was not a jacket maker they were a jacket retailer like Sears and Wards. I am not a student or follower of Schott. There are threads on the TFL that go into Schott's history and conjecture over what Schott claims. My point the Beck jacket in question was made by Schott for Beck based on their first motorcycle jacket made under the perfecto label. I would classify the first Schott perfector jacket as the original jacket and the Beck Northeaster flying togs a reproduction of the original perfecto jacket. I have never run across an original first Schott perfecto jacket. Maybe monitor will come to my aid, he is up to speed with Schott's history. I would think an original first Schott jacket in similar condition is more valuable than a Beck Northeaster jacket.

That's it, yeah. AFAIK, this jacket is the first motorcycle leather jacket made by Schott under the Perfecto label. This was during the early 1930's. Maybe sooner but this isn't some dubious claim Schott came up with as I've seen scans of 1930's ads and all. Schott later on produced this style for Beck.

Issue is that nowadays this model gets attributed entirely to Beck because another maker called Leathertogs was producing that same style for them, though I'm not sure when. Leathertogs went bust before the WW2 so it could've been during the 40's onward. I know they'd make this jacket for a long time.

Leathertogs and Schott jackets are very similar though certain dorkwads would have you believe that Schott's version never even existed.

Monitor · Dec 16, 2020

handymike · Dec 16, 2020

Oh Monitor.....

Monitor · Dec 16, 2020

handymike said:
Oh Monitor.....
View attachment 290164

Hahaha, I honestly can't stand breeches! They're so...

...

...military!

tmitchell59 · Dec 19, 2020

Won this Ralphs-Pugh. Not much for pictures in the sale. I own a couple from this era so I had a good idea of what the leather is like. I don't know about the belt with snaps. Has the original snap on collar. Curious if it will fit another similar RP. I have one with a collar and it has the original factory tag that says 42. It will not fit my larger sized RP.

I'm not sure of the size, I think bigger than a 36/38 the seller listed.

Given the two pictures I asked if the seller had any additional information about the history of the jacket. He is selling for the sister of the man pictured and will find out what he can. The man pictured died 20 years ago. He said he would send me the picture and dated it 1952.

Blackadder · Dec 19, 2020

tmitchell59 said:
Won this Ralphs-Pugh. Not much for pictures in the sale. I own a couple from this era so I had a good idea of what the leather is like. I don't know about the belt with snaps. Has the original snap on collar. Curious if it will fit another similar RP. I have one with a collar and it has the original factory tag that says 42. It will not fit my larger sized RP.

I'm not sure of the size, I think bigger than a 36/38 the seller listed.

Given the two pictures I asked if the seller had any additional information about the history of the jacket. He is selling for the sister of the man pictured and will find out what he can. The man pictured died 20 years ago. He said he would send me the picture and dated it 1952.

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Nice score. I was looking at it and would have bid if it doesn't have those pins.

ton312 · Dec 19, 2020

tmitchell59 said:
Won this Ralphs-Pugh. Not much for pictures in the sale. I own a couple from this era so I had a good idea of what the leather is like. I don't know about the belt with snaps. Has the original snap on collar. Curious if it will fit another similar RP. I have one with a collar and it has the original factory tag that says 42. It will not fit my larger sized RP.

I'm not sure of the size, I think bigger than a 36/38 the seller listed.

Given the two pictures I asked if the seller had any additional information about the history of the jacket. He is selling for the sister of the man pictured and will find out what he can. The man pictured died 20 years ago. He said he would send me the picture and dated it 1952.

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Wow!!! Insanely cool!

tmitchell59 · Dec 19, 2020

Blackadder said:
Nice score. I was looking at it and would have bid if it doesn't have those pins.

Good for me it had those pins! That is interesting.

tmitchell59 · Dec 19, 2020

ton312 said:
Wow!!! Insanely cool!

This is coming from Walla Walla Washington, West Coast. I've seen ads for Ralphs-Pugh Jackets along the West Coast. Just makes sense. I'm just developing a sense of where and who carried them in the inventory.

The Jacket could very well have been brand new in the picture. I place these jackets in the early 50s, so 1952 could be year one for this jacket. I was born in 1952. This was post-war boom time for Motorcycle Gear.

This jacket really represents that post-war Motorcycle boom. Nice part of West Coast Motorcycle history. I have another Ralphs-Pugh jacket with history from Northern California. I doubt there will be much additional information. The picture may tell the story.

tmitchell59 · Dec 29, 2020

Arrived today with Collar and Pictures. The picture of the Bike is dated 1952, the picture with the man and jacket is not dated. I date this jacket late 40s. Belt does not appear factory. The inner collar attachment for the detachable collar have been removed from the collar and put in the pockets. Easy re-sew. Probably a size 40 so I have to squeeze in.

tmitchell59 · Dec 29, 2020

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