The ultimative Denim Trouser Thread?

Sonero said:

They are made in >>> NICARAGUA

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Today I noticed, that the german environfriendly and sustainable brand "Hess Natur" started a partnership with a manufacturer in Bangladesh producing selvedge denim from local organic cotton dyed with local organic indigo. They say, they could find five old shuttle looms of japanese built in Bangladesh and set up a very local production of the entire product. They say on their web page, that the goal of this partnership was to help people in this poor country raising a fair income and help to develop better environmental standards, better education. No word about profits, though. Well, I like that they say it quite proudly right away in bold letters: Premium Denim From Bangladesh. I think, this can be a huge chance.

I can only hope, that the workers in Nicaragua who made your Wrangler do not have to climb the ladder from the lowest stave.
They deserve their chances. We had ours.

It is quite astonishing btw that we already filled up a huge thread about this matter with only two handful of comrades here.. And it's good to have Blackadder on board as he is THE insider. Thumbs up!

CatsCan said:

Premium Denim From Bangladesh. I think, this can be a huge chance.

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I think Bangladesh is a long shot. I would rate it below India as far as quality of production goes for just about anything. Most of my Made in Bangladesh clothing goes into the trash. Also clothing Made in India and Bangladesh has a distinct cheap look to it. I can always tell the difference when I receive items from these countries.

At this point China is top of the line You have a 50% chance of producing a decent product in most sectors. Even higher depending on what goods. Mexico HIGHER than 50 %. We don't give them enough business. We should.
India I'd say about 20% and Bangladesh about 10%.

Vietnam in the 30 to 40% range.

I'd love to see GERMANY start producing more clothing. Pike Bros and Portugal is a great combination. My dream is to see ITALY produce beautiful clothing once again.

Sonero said:

I think Bangladesh is a long shot. I would rate it below India as far as quality of production goes for just about anything. Most of my Made in Bangladesh clothing goes into the trash. Also clothing Made in India and Bangladesh has a distinct cheap look to it. I can always tell the difference when I receive items from these countries.

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I can't translate the whole text of their homepage into english because of the time it would take and I am always limited, but in short, this german company, which stands for fair production and sustainable products from since the day it was founded, is not comparable to the usual cheap Bangladesh sweat and blood shops. They set up a 100% sustainable, organic cotton, organic indigo, slow production fair conditions workshop in Bangladesh in collaboration with a small startup (clickable link) where they start to produce premium denim on old shuttle looms in best quality but with fair wages and conditions for the workers, highest health standards, highest environmental standards. I think, this is the way to go to help the poor countries to fight the problems they have. The pirate companies, who only seek profit but plunder the countries where they have their facilities, will only make it worse. I stopped buying those Nike "Converse Chucks" years ago in the moment a better alternative was availlable and only buy Ethletics Fair Trainer (it's a link, just click it) chucks since, for example. These are made in Pakistan or Bangladesh, too, but they are 100% from organic cotton, 100% sustainable rubber, and absolutely fair produced.

https://www.hessnatur.com/magazin/selvedge-jeans/
(only in german. Looks are not so good by now, but I hope they will get better, soon)

https://ethletic.com/en/about_en/ (fair alternative to the usual Nike chucks and sneakers, here you can see all the people behind the product! Have fun when you scroll down!)

I believe in this way to produce goods, for a better future.

If Pike Brothers would go for organic cotton (meaning no harm for the nature and the farmers) and fair trade conditions (meaning fair wages and better education and control of human rights), I would be 100% satisfied. Now I am only 80% satisfied. I love their products. But I want to see the people behind the products, and I don't mean the Pike staff, I mean the people who weave, sew, dye and pack the clothes. And I want to see them happy and healthy! Like in the Ethletics example I gave above.

Your example of a combination of Pike Brothers and Portugal is a good one. Now imagine a collaboration between Pike Brothers and these small Bangladesh startups mentioned above! How wonderful the world could be. I thing Hess Natur could benefit from this collaboration, too.

You see, I am advocating high standards in clothing and I am advocating high standards in the living it creates at the same time. Look, the things we humans need the most, water, food, clothes, shoes, are causing the biggest problems on earth and their production makes people and environment suffer the most. It's because these economic columns of our life are summoned under the control of worldwide production under the government of only a few dozen business people.

When I love my Bronson deck Jacket, I would be more happy with it, if I knew that it's production was fair.

I think, though, there is some difficulties in translations. Words like "fair", "organic", "sustainable" can be misleading on fashion forums.

Sonero said:

Vietnam in the 30 to 40% range

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All of my Fjällräven clothes are produced in Vietnam. The quality is outstanding. I think, when there is a will, there will soon be a way. And when this will would be applied for Bangladesh as well, this country could be a much better place for the people living there. But this is at least at the moment in the hands of the countries of the "first world" to let it be.

Sonero said:

I'd love to see GERMANY start producing more clothing

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Me too. Blaumann is actually produced in Germany, click here. Good stuff. A google image search for "Blaumann Jeans" reveals how fantastic they are. Everything is done in Germany (quite a rich country) from german made materials (buttons, rivets, yarns, leather patch, the sewing and stitching), exept the denim fabric which is made in Japan. Nowhere is poverty in any stage of the production. But the pants cost 260,- € ($ 314) at the moment.

Sonero said:

I think Bangladesh is a long shot. I would rate it below India as far as quality of production goes for just about anything. Most of my Made in Bangladesh clothing goes into the trash. Also clothing Made in India and Bangladesh has a distinct cheap look to it. I can always tell the difference when I receive items from these countries.

At this point China is top of the line You have a 50% chance of producing a decent product in most sectors. Even higher depending on what goods. Mexico HIGHER than 50 %. We don't give them enough business. We should.
India I'd say about 20% and Bangladesh about 10%.

Vietnam in the 30 to 40% range.

I'd love to see GERMANY start producing more clothing. Pike Bros and Portugal is a great combination. My dream is to see ITALY produce beautiful clothing once again.

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I am of the view that the poor quality has more to do with the company's direction than the country. Ever since the rising of the fast fashion, the traditional brands have found out that they can downgrade their products to increase their profit margin because afterall the typical consumer does not seem to care as much about durability and quality. Take Ralph Lauren for example, they have closed their cheapest line Denim & Supply. Polo's quality has declined to that of the old D&S and RRL is now old Polo's quality. All these Ralph Lauren product lines have been made in China for a long time so the decline in quality is not due to moving of productions to China.
Another example is Abercrombie.
We also see Gap going down the fast fashion route this past few years. My friend is still wearing his made in Bangladash Gap leather jackets he bought 20 years ago. It is a pretty sturdy leather jacket. I bought a 90s used made in Asia Gap leather denim jacket in raw hide. That is full grain leather like Mr Freedom's raw Campus. Now these brands replace top grain leather with pleather or split hide.

CatsCan said:

Me too. Blaumann is actually produced in Germany, click here. Good stuff. A google image search for "Blaumann Jeans" reveals how fantastic they are. Everything is done in Germany (quite a rich country) from german made materials (buttons, rivets, yarns, leather patch, the sewing and stitching), exept the denim fabric which is made in Japan. Nowhere is poverty in any stage of the production. But the pants cost 260,- € ($ 314) at the moment.

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Blaumann looks interesting. Do you know if they ship to USA and if I can change the language to English ?

Sonero said:

Do you know if they ship to USA and if I can change the language to English ?

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They are sold in shops online over here. I am sure you will find some that ship overseas. But vats will be added and postage, so I guess not too cheap, then. You could drop them a mail. Most people here speak and understand english to some degree or at least have someone who can respond. If you google for Blaumann Jeans, there are some good articles about the company and some shops show up. Did not find a shop oustide Europe, however. I keep my eyes open.

...here is an 2017 article. At least it's in english.
http://www.blaumann-jeanshosen.de/media/files/2017-02-PR-Blaumannjeanshosen-discover-germany.pdf

Hmm, I see Blaumann hasn't yet found it's way to outside Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Netherlands. Give them one, two years and I believe they will have some retailers abroad. I read, they even bought some old looms and want to start weaving the denim over here, too.. nice to know for the future.

But Sonero, when this Covid shit is over, there are a thousand reasons for planning trips in Europe. This could be one more for you.

Sonero said:

Just a heads up for you Wrangler guys.

My new 936 came in today. They are made in >>> NICARAGUA. 100% cotton but they look like a pair of counterfeit jeans you would see at a local mercado in Latin America. I've been too several of them. The difference between these and the old made in Mexico are huge. I guess I can add Wranglers as another item not to be purchased online.

I purchased mine directly from Wrangler USA.

And they have ELASTIC in the fabric. Not 100% real denim.

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A week ago I also received my 13 mwz and they are also made in Nicaragua, which is a terrible quality..starting from the difference in the length of the pant leg, uneven seams and crooked back pockets, bought on sheplers, of course I should have written them a letter right away but I was too shy to do it..but to no avail.As a result, my wife fixed the problem with the pant leg, but with pockets this can not be done at home.

So, where are the good Wranglers made? I’ve seen some on ebay made in Costa Rica, also Mexico. The problem with used cowboy cut is you often see the crease ironed in down the legs...not a look I like.

Yes, I think it's Ebay, you can still find a wrangler made in Mexico for the USA.

Alexlutov said:

A week ago I also received my 13 mwz and they are also made in Nicaragua, which is a terrible quality..starting from the difference in the length of the pant leg, uneven seams and crooked back pockets, bought on sheplers, of course I should have written them a letter right away but I was too shy to do it..but to no avail.As a result, my wife fixed the problem with the pant leg, but with pockets this can not be done at home.

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That's too bad but thanks for the confirmation. I am very happy with my Japanese Denim. I also have a pair of Gustins on the way and as soon as Pike Bros has my size in stock>>> one of theirs as well. Bye Bye Wrangler.

Within the last month I got a pair of rigid 13 mwz from Amazon prime. $19 delivered and a pre-washed pair from Tractor Supply for about $24 and both pair are made in Mexico from U.S. fabric. Quality is fine. Goodbye RRL selvedge with a button fly.

Which Amazon seller had the Mexico ones?

There are lots of deadstock made in USA denim from the 80s for sale on ebay, etsy etc. The better known brands cost quite a few now but there are lesser known brands that are of same quality to say 80s Lee and Wrangler costing 20-40 dollars. Try Penney's own brand, Key denim, Osh Kosh etc.

handymike said:

Which Amazon seller had the Mexico ones?

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I’ll check with the household Amazon CFO.

handymike said:

Which Amazon seller had the Mexico ones?

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Mike, the page shows sold by Amazon and shipped by Amazon. The heading shows ‘visit the Wrangler store’. Currently shows a price $18.91 for the rigid.

Took the plunge today to try Bravestar. They are taking preorders for some of the last stock they have of Cone Mills selvedge so I ordered a couple of pairs. Now I have to decide what to do with 36 inch length when my short legs are 30 inches