1950s White Trojan night rider

jonbuilder · Jan 25, 2021

I am not excited about writing this review given the example I have has extensive leather flaking I presume leather dry rot? I found two large tears and one smaller tear that looks like a repair of a long tear. The zip insection pin is weak and has some tape unraveling. I anticipated the fit would border on the too small to be practical. I can zip up the jacket being careful with the zip-insection pin. So I will start with some pictures and proceed with what I think of Trojan Sportswear later

I could have made this jacket work without the undisclosed issues. I would not have been wearing i zip up

AeroFan_07 · Jan 26, 2021

^^ Very sorry to see all this. I suspect this would be a difficult jacket to repair in any manner.

My deep regrets to you that this wound up in such poor shape - and un-disclosed at that.

TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead · Jan 26, 2021

oh jeez. That really sucks. Did you do that insurance thing on Buyee where they supposedly check to make sure it's comparable to the listing? I'm curious if that has any value?

Carlos840 · Jan 26, 2021

I'm sorry to see that, that really sucks.
Was that a buyee purchase?
It's weird, the leather itself really makes me think of LW leather.
It has a similar looking top coat and grain...

jonbuilder · Jan 26, 2021

I paid $100 in fees I think $50 for shipping (not the DHL shipping to me) that I believe includes inspection. I am recording the procedure in another thread "buying on Japanese web sites" I paid buyee through paypal for the jacket, buyee is responsible that the goods are as described. I opened a dispute through paypal waiting to hear buyee's response.

jonbuilder · Jan 26, 2021

Carlos840 said:
I'm sorry to see that, that really sucks.
Was that a buyee purchase?
It's weird, the leather itself really makes me think of LW leather.
It has a similar looking top coat and grain...

The lapel leather not exposed when zipped is in fine condition and has a smooth robust feel. Same with all the interior leather and lining.

ton312 · Jan 26, 2021

Man that’s just unacceptable!! This is why I avoid those sites. I can never really figure out if what’s being offered is being sold. Same images used across different seller accounts, etc...

jonbuilder · Jan 26, 2021

ton312 said:
Man that’s just unacceptable!! This is why I avoid those sites. I can never really figure out if what’s being offered is being sold. Same images used across different seller accounts, etc...

In his case, the description and pictures did come from the jacket owner, but the flaws were hidden and not mentioned. The rip at the shoulder I did not notice until I put the jacket on and looked in a mirror. Could be the weak leather just tore with a little stain.

Blackadder · Jan 26, 2021

ton312 said:
Man that’s just unacceptable!! This is why I avoid those sites. I can never really figure out if what’s being offered is being sold. Same images used across different seller accounts, etc...

I think it was bought directly from the seller on Yahoo auction jp using a proxy. The proxy part carries a risk as the buyer is not registered on Yahoo auction jp himself and cannot lodge a complaint against the seller directly, can't even give bad feedback. As I said in the other thread there is also the issue of business practice and custom of no return and no refund in Asia. It is probably one of the reasons why there are so many 2nd hand clothing stores in Japan.

jonbuilder · Jan 26, 2021

Blackadder said:
I think it was bought directly from the seller on Yahoo auction jp using a proxy. The proxy part carries a risk as the buyer is not registered on Yahoo auction jp himself and cannot lodge a complaint against the seller directly, can't even give bad feedback. As I said in the other thread there is also the issue of business practice and custom of no return and no refund in Asia. It is probably one of the reasons why there are so many 2nd hand clothing stores in Japan.

I understand Yahoo auction jp may have a no return but I believe and hoping that paypal will hold the proxy buyer accountable. My conversations with a paypal agent indicate that they will, either way, they will open a dispute and make a Judgment based on submittals.

Blackadder · Jan 26, 2021

jonbuilder said:
I understand Yahoo auction jp may have a no return but I believe and hoping that paypal will hold the proxy buyer accountable. My conversations with a paypal agent indicate that they will, either way, they will open a dispute and make a Judgment based on submittals.

Hope paypal comes through. I usually use my credit card on proxy, now I may switch to paypal.

TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead · Jan 26, 2021

I think that you did the inspection should help your case. I've only bought one jacket and thought to myself for $5, it's worth it even though I'm assuming they just open the box, maybe check the label and then stuff it back inside.

The japanese listings like the ones you see on Ebay vary. Some are very thorough and will note every little detail almost to the point of you're not even sure what you're supposed to be looking at. Others may only have a few photos. I've never seen any listing with photos of the measurements, however. So you really need to know what you're buying and then hope maybe some Spidey sense if something looks off and of course luck in the end.

nick123 · Jan 26, 2021

A really lovely design which looks great on you. Probably rarer than rare too. But if we’re being honest, our repro leathers, in many ways, are superior to the oldies.

I’d actually fix the tears and throw some conditioner on it. It’s too cool. Or at the least take a bunch of photos and get, JL, or LW (or anyone else willing) to make a repro. Shame Aero doesn’t do the Trojan; their cream Vicenza is spot on for this.

AeroFan_07 · Jan 26, 2021

^^ I think Nick is onto something here. Once you get the PayPal portion of this deal resolved, I hope you could take it to Johnson Leathers and see what they could do for repairing this one and/or using it as a pattern for a new one to be made. Maybe it could be a new model for them to produce? Many possilbiies, provided you are ok with them taking apart this one to pattern it...

tmitchell59 · Jan 26, 2021

As I scrolled through the fit pics I was surprised that it fit and looked as good as it does.

Then the undisclosed damage. I have purchased over 300 vintage jackets and never had an experience like this. Like you, I would never buy a jacket for this money in this condition. I don't know anyone who would.

Given what you paid how can anyone think this is an acceptable item or that you would pay this money for that any jacket with this damage.

I did buy one vintage jacket from yahoo japan for top dollar. It did come with some issues not disclosed. The rarity of the jacket overcame the issues. I would have bought it with the issues shown, but would have paid less. Other garments I have purchased from yahoo were as described.

AeroFan_07 said:
I hope you could take it to Johnson Leathers and see what they could do for repairing this one

I was thinking the same. Some area looks like rot that can not be repaired.

jonbuilder · Jan 26, 2021

differently, the jacket will go to JL. Alan is capable of doing a pattern without taking the jacket apart. I do anticipate having to return the jacket to recoup my $1,400 and change. The DHL fee is gone and I need to address the paperwork to recoup a $77 custom fee because buyee claim incorrectly the jacket originated in Japan. Plain sloppy businesses not paying attention to details at their customer expense.

Jin431 · Jan 27, 2021

jonbuilder said:
differently, the jacket will go to JL. Alan is capable of doing a pattern without taking the jacket apart. I do anticipate having to return the jacket to recoup my $1,400 and change. The DHL fee is gone and I need to address the paperwork to recoup a $77 custom fee because buyee claim incorrectly the jacket originated in Japan. Plain sloppy businesses not paying attention to details at their customer expense.

That's a lot of money for that disappointment, hope the case gets resolved quickly and you get your money back. All the best

AeroFan_07 · Jan 27, 2021

Wow. No words other than my deepest apologies.

It does appear Stuart does something at least similar in Cream Horsehide:
http://www.lostworldsinc.com/Leather_Motorcycle_Jacket_Trojan_Horsehide.htm

dudewuttheheck · Jan 27, 2021

That's a real shame. The condition is certainly unacceptable. The jacket looks like a good fit...

jonbuilder · Jan 28, 2021

dudewuttheheck said:
That's a real shame. The condition is certainly unacceptable. The jacket looks like a good fit...

I would need to move up one size this is a 40 I need one inch more room in the chest and one-inch more sleeves length.
I do like the pattern better than the size 44 Lost World Trojan that had too large of shoulders making for dropping shoulders reminds me of the over large mall jacket one size fits all. The Lost World was also large at the hem
What I am saying, I would be best in size 42 in both the original and Lost World patterns but the original would fit better at the shoulders and more trim thought the body better for my built.

1950s White Trojan night rider

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