Ever think some jackets are overhyped

Maybe a bit off topic, maybe not. I thought it might contribute to this hype discussion, putting things into perspective. Today I received this café racer, made by a company which is not lauded for it's craftsmanship. At least not here at TFL. Who can guess its maker

TheDonEffect said:

At the end of the day, it's an artisanal, handmade, jacket done by a guy who's not running a sweat shop or using automation. It's not the same worker executing the same exact stitch all day every day, and then going through multiple checks along the way to ensure uniformity. No, it's, at least in theory, made start to finish, with customer inputs, by one artisan. Remember the old saying, always best to have someone else check your work.

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IMO that is BS.
Something being artisanal means it should be better made that somethign made in a factory.
If the same person is making a jacket from start to finish i expect better quality than if something was made Schott style (basically a chain where each step is executed by a different person.)
If Thedi, Lost Worlds, Field Leathers and many others manage to make an artisanal product that is IMO perfect 99% of the time why would you excuse Himel?

Brandrea33 said:

Thanks for your thoughts.

I agree the mock up jacket has me less worried about any fit issues (although I realize it’s not fool proof), and I know who to blame if it doesn’t “feel” like I hope it should.

I too appreciate working with someone who is actually making the jacket and with Greg, I know that will be the case. That’s not meant to be critical of Himel, but it did factor into my decision to use Field Leathers. Will he make a better jacket? We shall see, but from all indications the craftsmanship is superior to many brands out there who have been around a lot longer.

I’m excited to see what you have coming down the pipe from Greg.

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It is a d pocket, navy blue shinki with red thread to emphasise the stitching
My mock-up should be done by next week if all goes well

Marc mndt said:

Maybe a bit off topic, maybe not. I thought it might contribute to this hype discussion, putting things into perspective. Today I received this café racer, made by a company which is not lauded for it's craftsmanship. At least not here at TFL. Who can guess its maker
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No idea but I like it. I'm curious what it is

Monitor said:

I don't think any other maker charges more for their jackets right now, not even Japanese ones with all the import taxes and all that included.

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That's not true. Try to purchase a Freewheelers jacket and tell me later what it will cost you after customs take their cut.

Depending on the model that's aprox ~1700-2500€ plus shipping plus taxes/duties which you can add at least close to another 800-1000€(for a 700€ one I had to pay 315€ so imagine for a 1800€ one...)

That's the reason why I didn't purchase a Freewheelers Arnold recently even at a discounted price because that means I'm spending 3000€ in a jacket that I don't even know if it will fit me fine or not.

Any Japanese maker will set you up closer to 3000€ if you buy it new from Europe and same with any maker around those prices outside the EU.

Marc mndt said:

Maybe a bit off topic, maybe not. I thought it might contribute to this hype discussion, putting things into perspective. Today I received this café racer, made by a company which is not lauded for it's craftsmanship. At least not here at TFL. Who can guess its maker
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I'd guess Schott from the zipper tassle.

Monitor said:

For that kind of money, you ought to be. @dudewuttheheck is with his Freewheelers jackets, having little to no complaints whatsoever and his expectations bar is set pretty darn high. There are brands out there that will deliver you a... Well, something you might consider close to perfect. Of course, it all depends what you're after but I've read a lot of similar testimonies on Himel Bros. from members here who've had jackets by just about every top tier maker under the sun and all of these people eventually settled for a maker that indeed does seem make them over the moon with what they bought, be it Freewheelers, Thedi or Lost Worlds.
So I'd say it's not unrealistic to expect anything less for $2500+, how much a new Himel costs. I don't think any other maker charges more for their jackets right now, not even Japanese ones with all the import taxes and all that included.

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I agree, now I feel worse lol.

All joking aside, you’re right in that for the premium price there are undoubtedly premium expectations....

I hope to have the ultimate jacket next time around.

red devil said:

It is a d pocket, navy blue shinki with red thread to emphasise the stitching
My mock-up should be done by next week if all goes well

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My oh my ... that sounds amazing, can’t wait to see that one!

Mine is somewhat “safe” as my style isn’t that fashion forward lol. That said, it’s a pattern he’s quite familiar with and said he was excited and happy to do for me

Carlos840 said:

IMO that is BS.
Something being artisanal means it should be better made that somethign made in a factory.
If the same person is making a jacket from start to finish i expect better quality than if something was made Schott style (basically a chain where each step is executed by a different person.)
If Thedi, Lost Worlds, Field Leathers and many others manage to make an artisanal product that is IMO perfect 99% of the time why would you excuse Himel?

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Well let me first respond by saying I'm not necessarily excusing Himel. Personally, if I did I'd own one of his jackets, but I did the math factoring in all the aforementioned points of this thread and beyond and yeah, not worth the price imo. My post was to illustrate that within this realm of market, there are things beyond objective reasoning.

Beyond this, it becomes a very philosophical discussion, one riddled with contradictions and such, so let me try.

What I'm also saying is that these issues aren't unique either, and depending on the person evaluating the piece, it can either be a flaw or charm, something that was done incorrectly, or something that reminds you it was done by a person and not a machine. See, all of these points are looking at the same thing but come away with a different feeling. For instance, I don't care that Himel has 9 stitches per inch, when I can clearly see in other pictures from other posts that the stitching isn't always the straightest, or tightest, or consistent, etc etc. It's actually very human. People buy a Himel because they want a Himel, and IMO buying one second hand defeats the purpose. One of the benefits of buying a Himel is being able to give input to sizing and style.

I'm with you, hence I don't aspire to own a Himel. But I understand that story how they rose to the current status, you can get more customization, great customer service, alot of the early adopters talk about how if it aint right send it back and he will make it right. And he is one of the few makers in NA that gets Shinki for instance.

But the other point I made is that we all get so caught up with handmade, Ive seen it time and time again in industry, people think that one artisan start to finish makes for a better end product. While sometimes the case, often times it's not. A person executing the same task over and over again will likely perfect that task, but a person having to do a range of tasks will likely have errors especially when there aren't fresh pairs of eyes double checking the work.

And you're right, with Thedi and Field for instance, their quality is pretty damn good. In the case of Field, he was one of the best workers out of Aero, and is going out on his own, so get it while the gettings good because I'm sure once he grows his business he'll have others making jackets for him if he haven't already, and surely the price will go up. Himel and a few others really carved out their own niche within the marketplace, and others want in. I'd much rather make one 3k jacket vs having to make three 1k jackets. Oftentimes though, those jackets aren't far apart if at all in terms of quality, just in perceived quality.

Quality is a perception, people pay 100s to have a chef serve them a deconstructed salad, but then flip out when their $1 McChicken doesn't look like the picture.

I have a whole dissertation on some of the Japanese brands, which I'll just start by saying, who actually makes their jackets?

Marc mndt said:

Maybe a bit off topic, maybe not. I thought it might contribute to this hype discussion, putting things into perspective. Today I received this café racer, made by a company which is not lauded for it's craftsmanship. At least not here at TFL. Who can guess its maker
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RRL all in

I think is this? Funny I was looking at it the other day on eBay and I thought it was a nice jacket. Sadly not my size.

Marc mndt said:

Maybe a bit off topic, maybe not. I thought it might contribute to this hype discussion, putting things into perspective. Today I received this café racer, made by a company which is not lauded for it's craftsmanship. At least not here at TFL. Who can guess its maker
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Mich486 said:

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I think is this? Funny I was looking at it the other day on eBay and I thought it was a nice jacket. Sadly not my size.

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We tied Mitch!

Loool same picture too! Too much eBay for both of us man...

Mich486 said:

RRL all in

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Bingo, we've got a winner! (Two winners )
Full retail these are sold for about $1600. Which is a lot of money and for that money, personally I'd buy something else. However, hardly anyone buys these at their full retail price. On sale you can get these for 1k$ or even less.

In terms of build quality, these are way better than any Schott or Aero I've handled. Stitching is even neater than my Eastmans. Linings is more luxurious. In terms of leather, it's as good as cowhide can get. In that sense Eastmans' horsehide has the upper hand of course.

All in all, it's a pretty good jacket. Second hand these can be found for a couple of hundred €.

Yet these jackets are never discussed here at TFL. I guess that's because they're China made fashion jackets? Which I totally get, I prefer something artisan made as well.

But if we ignore the fact that these are factory and China made. Doesn't this look like a pretty good jacket? Great resale value too.

This is a $1750 Eastman Roadstar. Wonky stitching, sleeve lining hanging out, frontpanels misaligned. Looks pretty sloppy. Worth the money? It does put things into perspective (imo)

The misaligned panel is a thing eh, it's made on purpose. Many Crosszips have it. It's a feature not a mistake or an accident when making the jacket.

Example: My FW Sunset and @dudewuttheheck

willyto said:

The misaligned panel is a thing eh, it's made on purpose. Many Crosszips have it. It's a feature not a mistake or an accident when making the jacket.

Example: My FW Sunset and @dudewuttheheck

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I don't have freewheelers to compare, but these cross zips do line up.

I've had cross zips do this, some misaligned, some flush at the hem. Always assumed it had to do with how the zipper was set.

Yeah I always thought it was how the zipper was set, and then stretched/misaligned when being used <shrug>.

from pictures I see more crosszip with the drop front hem don't line up, maybe combination of optical illusion of sloping hem intersected by straight zipper box before meeting another sloping hem again, or a design feature to make sure the bottom hem tip of the small side won't peek out under the big front side when zipped.