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Sunrise Hat Company felt (nutria) and hatters’ tools

jlee562

jlee562

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5,052
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San Francisco, CA
Well, I already wanted the natural felt and was hoping it was an undyed felt to begin with...so I'll still probably buy it.

But I also don't regret shelling out the extra for the FEPSA blanks.
 
Tukwila

Tukwila

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I've had Winchester go bad on multiple custom orders with Michael Gannon and BSHW... I think my natural with BSHW had to be replaced twice. The reason I have a natural from Gannon is my dark moss hat body got ruined with little hard, sand-sized pieces of whatever almost as soon as Michael started pouncing.
 
belfastboy

belfastboy

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10,383
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vancouver, canada
Tukwila said:
I've had Winchester go bad on multiple custom orders with Michael Gannon and BSHW... I think my natural with BSHW had to be replaced twice. The reason I have a natural from Gannon is my dark moss hat body got ruined with little hard, sand-sized pieces of whatever almost as soon as Michael started pouncing.
Click to expand...
Every time I go to pounce a Winchester I hold my breath. I wish Tonak made beaver felts as I use their rabbit felts a lot and never have experienced a problem with the felt. I have a source for 165gr dress weight Tonak in almost western dimensions so this may become my go to.
 
Gobi

Gobi

One of the Regulars
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169
Ok what I've learned:
Sunrise bodies are dyed with a natural dye which is cool, the dye is actually derived from beetles which is even more cool. The stiffening lacquer they use dissolves in very hot water. When the boiling water touched the tip of my crown, the lacquer dissolved and took the dye with it. So... be careful when steaming! Heat along with water seems to be the enemy here. There were marks on the brim of that hat where it was touching the rim of the pot it was in when steaming. Ironing could also cause problems if you aren't careful and if the hat is too wet or iron too hot. I'm used to working with hats that probably have synthetic dyes, you can expose them to boiling water with no problem.
I love that Sunrise uses natural dye but obviously I need to adjust my approach to these bodies. They were happy to send a replacement and I thanked them for the info. I asked for the replacement body in natural instead of Honey. Great customer service.
Another cool thing I learned is that the Natural bodies are in fact undyed natural fur which explains why I didn't experience these issues with my first body. However, I probably did dissolve some lacquer on that crown, not a big deal to me though, it's a little less stiff.

Now I need to brainstorm ideas to better handle these bodies because I would still like to order another honey down the road and try again but right now I'm not prepared to handle a delicate dye.
 
belfastboy

belfastboy

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10,383
Location
vancouver, canada
Gobi said:
Ok what I've learned:
Sunrise bodies are dyed with a natural dye which is cool, the dye is actually derived from beetles which is even more cool. The stiffening lacquer they use dissolves in very hot water. When the boiling water touched the tip of my crown, the lacquer dissolved and took the dye with it. So... be careful when steaming! Heat along with water seems to be the enemy here. There were marks on the brim of that hat where it was touching the rim of the pot it was in when steaming. Ironing could also cause problems if you aren't careful and if the hat is too wet or iron too hot. I'm used to working with hats that probably have synthetic dyes, you can expose them to boiling water with no problem.
I love that Sunrise uses natural dye but obviously I need to adjust my approach to these bodies. They were happy to send a replacement and I thanked them for the info. I asked for the replacement body in natural instead of Honey. Great customer service.
Another cool thing I learned is that the Natural bodies are in fact undyed natural fur which explains why I didn't experience these issues with my first body. However, I probably did dissolve some lacquer on that crown, not a big deal to me though, it's a little less stiff.

Now I need to brainstorm ideas to better handle these bodies because I would still like to order another honey down the road and try again but right now I'm not prepared to handle a delicate dye.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this. They really do need to include this info with each hat. I use acid dyes (Jacquard or Ciba) and once the felt is dyed it is locked into the felt and indestructible. I am hesitant about them now as I use lots of steam, lots of ironing, lots of heat and fearful of marring the dye.
 
Tukwila

Tukwila

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3,382
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SW of Antifa Central (PDX)
My natural 220g arrived. It looks pretty good. I am going to see Mike Miller at NW Hats in a couple weeks and will see what he thinks about it.

The natural swatch piece looks like it is from a dress weight body... interesting, meaning: nice.
 
belfastboy

belfastboy

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vancouver, canada
Tukwila said:
My natural 220g arrived. It looks pretty good. I am going to see Mike Miller at NW Hats in a couple weeks and will see what he thinks about it.

The natural swatch piece looks like it is from a dress weight body... interesting, meaning: nice.
Click to expand...
I will be very interested to read Mike'
s comments. I am thinking of a dress weight Natural to get around the dye issue.
 
Tukwila

Tukwila

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Looking over these felt swatches I have to agree with some of the comments made here. AMAZING difference in stiffness from felt to felt. Can't they be more uniform? I wouldn't want to order ANY felt as stiff as some of these.

Plum - does look fairly close to the old "red" black cherry.
Midnight - VERY dark, even when laid against my black coat.
Natural - and Driftwood - look like the same color to me. I see no listing for a dress weight "natural" so wonder where this swatch came from.
Moss - is a very dark "hunter" green and has possibilities... if not too stiff to work with.
Sage - while I wish it had more green to it, when I place it next to a grey felt then the green sage color is much more noticeable.
Cobalt - I like the dark bluish hue this one has, and the sample swatch is not too stiff.
Pewter - Very close to the limited Glacier felt VS had just before Art retired.
White - Closer to an ivory or bone color.

We can't see Mike this weekend, maybe next... hotel reservations are hit and miss in Eugene. We had an online reservation at the Red Lion, but today we got an email saying the hotel had been sold to the county and was not accepting reservations. WTH?

So, maybe next Saturday we'll just drive down, visit Mike for awhile and then turn around and head home.
 
deadlyhandsome

deadlyhandsome

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18,930
Location
Central California
Just thinking about the stiffness variations: If there are two weights of felt and two stiffness levels within each, I would expect there to be four degrees of stiffness. Gannon has my samples so I’m not able to compare them myself right now.

I’d also like a natural dress weight if that becomes an option.
 
ChicagoWayVito

ChicagoWayVito

Practically Family
Messages
699
Tukwila said:
Plum - does look fairly close to the old "red" black cherry.
Click to expand...

Photos for comparision. Mike Miller provided me with a cutting of old "red" black cherry. So I have a picture with the cutting and the plum swatch next to it. The first image shows the un-pounced side of the old black cherry and the second picture shows the pounced side of the old black cherry both next to the plum swatch. Once it is pounced they are very close in color, at least to my eye.

Only issue is that Sunrise may or may not do another 150 gram run and who knows what colors they do. They also said it would be months before they do another run.

20210226_130138.jpg
20210226_130129.jpg
 
Rmccamey

Rmccamey

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,657
Location
Central Texas
Very nice. Thanks for sharing your impressions. Robert @belfastboy you might keep the plum on your radar for the next fedora build!

ChicagoWayVito said:
Photos for comparision. Mike Miller provided me with a cutting of old "red" black cherry. So I have a picture with the cutting and the plum swatch next to it. The first image shows the un-pounced side of the old black cherry and the second picture shows the pounced side of the old black cherry both next to the plum swatch. Once it is pounced they are very close in color, at least to my eye.

Only issue is that Sunrise may or may not do another 150 gram run and who knows what colors they do. They also said it would be months before they do another run.

View attachment 313483 View attachment 313482
Click to expand...
 
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