jackets you designed thoughts and concepts and ideas

navetsea · Feb 28, 2021

Edward said:
I really like this. As others have noted, the sunglasses pocket above the chest pocket is a bit fiddly. Perhaps a leather loop instead that could be used just to slip a leg through? I'd want to keep the well away from the zip on the chest pocket as that could cause scratching to lenses.

The jeans-style pocket on the other side is nice, that would be great for stowing gloves if actually in use as a motorcycle jacket.

I think a lot of us round here would prefer the excuse to have two jackets.... My issue with the removable version is that they tend to either be prone to riding up, or need excessive studding... (That said, I keep meaning to pick one up for my Schott 618 to try it on that. I do like the look, very Johnny Thunders). Given though I'm not at the stage of having other leathers for warmer days, I'd like a fixed mouton with a Winter liner inside too.

I'm wary of studding on a metal ornament of some sort lest it catch and tear the leather, or pull out and leave extraneous holes. Also not so much a fan of logos. That said it could be cool to make it like the eyelets patch for a police leather, and then a range of badges and bits could be created for wearing in it - an accessory people could change out as the mood takes.

Were I designing an idealised take on the cross-zip, I'd like to give it sleeve zips like the Durable - nice and long. Aside from the occasional replica of Brando's jacket, that's a zip-style nobody seems to be doing now (I supposed it does create extra work and expense without much market demand?), but it's got a great, distinctive look. With a shorter zipper, I'd be inclined to go gusset-free for a lighter, Summer jacket. Unlined would be fun; that's one thing I've never owned in a leather and would be open to, a nice, unlined goat with a bit of body to it, like the goat Aero use.

Thanks Edward, I like long zip on the cuff, already tried it on my previous jacket, I use windflap tongue inside rather than closed triangle gusset, can fit a lot closer to the wrist, already position it on the front part but when worn is still a bit far outward, not visible from the front at all, I plan to do better this time around.

as for chest patch pocket, the one I have on my other jacket is perfect for lozenges pack, a deck of playing card or pocket tissue.. it is not as "useful" as in jeans since the leather of the body and the patch is kind of fighting each other rather than cooperate, my current gloves is too bulky to fit there, maybe a thin unlined driving gloves might fit.

I love eyelets and low profile grommets on jacket add lots more attitude to the look, nothing too punk or spikey though.

in my climate I have no plan for detachable sleeve fur collar, it is more likely to have a detachable collar so the jacket can be worn collarless since I love collarless jacket... haha, but no I think the collar on this is permanent, permanent collar is much neater construction up close, and they would age and fade together with the jacket rather than giving me option to leave the collar at home 60 % of the time and one day I would see the collar looking brand new while the jacket is fading and grainy

air · Mar 1, 2021

I like that you used large and uncomplicated leather panels in the sleeves and back and then complete the look with the rest of the details. Especially how you placed the eyelets on the bi-swing back instead of hiding them below the arm.

Is there a reason why you haven't put the patch on the left hand side and a zipped pocket on the right? It might look a little unbalanced on a jacket laying flat, but once it's on your body it should fit nice and flat on your left chest. The downside is it will bulge more prominently if you fill it up a lot.

Thinking of pocket placement always frustrates me, I like the look of slightly vertical pockets, but too much and they become parallel to the main zipper, which I can't stand

. The trick seems to be making the main zip a little straighter and less centered, it's a fine line between beautiful and horrid. Of course the change in the main zip makes the two sides even more uneven and harder to balance.

Perfect pocket inclination

https://www.etsy.com/listing/474274840/40s-top-notch-ralphs-pugh-horsehide?ref=shop_home_active_58

navetsea said:
as for chest patch pocket, the one I have on my other jacket is perfect for lozenges pack, a deck of playing card or pocket tissue.. it is not as "useful" as in jeans since the leather of the body and the patch is kind of fighting each other rather than cooperate, my current gloves is too bulky to fit there, maybe a thin unlined driving gloves might fit.

You can always tuck the gloves beneath one of the epaulettes, they were made for that after all ^^

My favorite leather jackets are cal leather's vintage chp, they have no bi-swing back unlike most chp's, and the small triangular side panels can be hidden when you pull the laces tight. Some even have epaulettes! Finding one I can afford and ticks all the boxes is very hard, instead I started drawing one with librecad. Here is the back with sleevesk, epaulettes and details still missing. I tried adapting the measurements to my proportions and it ended up looking slimmer than I expected.

navetsea · Mar 1, 2021

Thanks for the input Air, I agree, while I have a strong feel that for a cohesive look elements must be repeated in similar form or referenced for another (applied in most arts I think) to rhyme and avoid complete chaos ,

like the tip of the collar to the the tip of the lapel or the tip of the epaulette with the tip of the belt maybe
or
the drop of the shoulder mirrored by the angle of slant chest pocket perhaps.

but referencing slant main zip to pocket parallel to it looks so bad in my eyes I agree with that.

Since I don't plan to collect multiple crosszips I hope to have the usual main ingredients like slant main zip, slant zipper pocket, a pair of handwarmers, collar, epaulette and belt. other elements added on top as personal touch like that patch pocket or baby pocket junior

yeah I see some stuck their gloves under the epaulette, I thought only berets rolled under it like we used to do that at school here in my country when in scout uniform day of the week.

interesting belt loop config on that cross CHP, clearly on the left side the belt loop is shifted forward to make room for gun holster, look very purpose oriented can look a bit peculiar worn without the utility belt to complete the look, maybe if planned to be worn as casual jacket the belt loop can be made more symmetrical.

I typed way too many "symmetrical" word in a cross zip design it starts to work on my subconscious.

air · Mar 2, 2021

navetsea said:
Since I don't plan to collect multiple crosszips I hope to have the usual main ingredients like slant main zip, slant zipper pocket, a pair of handwarmers, collar, epaulette and belt. other elements added on top as personal touch like that patch pocket or baby pocket junior

This is the hardest part in my opinion, when I own multiple pieces of the same article (my only leather garment is a straight zip coat) I can have quirky and standard versions. With a single piece it really needs to be perfect, obviously it can't be boring but at the same time it needs fit the archetype of it's kind.

navetsea said:
I typed way too many "symmetrical" word in a cross zip design it starts to work on my subconscious.

Today I thought maybe symmetry can be used to balance pocket placement in a cross zip, so far not very promising. I should have drawn some pockets then mirror them instead of using only areas, or at least divided areas between top and bottom.

top left is base design ------ top right is symetry across the zip line
bottom left is symmetry across central axis ------ bottom right is symmetry to an axis parallel to zip line

the purple lines mark areas where pockets might be impractical, vertical shows where the jacket curves below the armpits and horizontal shows risk of being affected by spread collar (which was not drawn due to lack of time)

Same but this time mirroring the large panel

navetsea said:
interesting belt loop config on that cross CHP, clearly on the left side the belt loop is shifted forward to make room for gun holster, look very purpose oriented can look a bit peculiar worn without the utility belt to complete the look, maybe if planned to be worn as casual jacket the belt loop can be made more symmetrical.

I like how they have only two loops on the back concentrated on the back panel, but I think the side panels need to be small for that or it will look to empty.

handymike · Mar 2, 2021

Ralphs-Pugh made the most incredible jackets.

navetsea · Mar 3, 2021

air said:
This is the hardest part in my opinion, when I own multiple pieces of the same article (my only leather garment is a straight zip coat) I can have quirky and standard versions. With a single piece it really needs to be perfect, obviously it can't be boring but at the same time it needs fit the archetype of it's kind.

Today I thought maybe symmetry can be used to balance pocket placement in a cross zip, so far not very promising. I should have drawn some pockets then mirror them instead of using only areas, or at least divided areas between top and bottom.
View attachment 314525

top left is base design ------ top right is symetry across the zip line
bottom left is symmetry across central axis ------ bottom right is symmetry to an axis parallel to zip line

the purple lines mark areas where pockets might be impractical, vertical shows where the jacket curves below the armpits and horizontal shows risk of being affected by spread collar (which was not drawn due to lack of time)

Same but this time mirroring the large panel
View attachment 314529

I like how they have only two loops on the back concentrated on the back panel, but I think the side panels need to be small for that or it will look to empty.

yeah I think on the chest area higher than armpit is affected by arm movement, any horizontal pocket there would be gaping open every time you reach forward and the chest is already protruding and rest against bone really not ideal to place a useful pocket on, somehow I always like lower set chest pockets both for look and usefulness

even on cross zip I still use the center line as a reference to symmetry and balance. I'm stuck with seeing this slanting zipper as a visual problem to solve around rather than a design feature to embrace. that was a little update, I'm still stuck with that small pocket, for whatever reason I like it, I made it counter slant and thinner, the epaulette is secured with a toggle since the hide is going to be hard vegtan again, and I'm afraid it will get frequently popped off when using snap everytime I shrugged or rotate my shoulder. color is blackened nat vegtan, will paint the surface in diluted black translucent black and seal it to get some sheen, the belt is 3mm nat vegtan (still not sure if I would paint the belt only on the grain side or both sides)

dannyk · Mar 3, 2021

navetsea said:
yeah I think on the chest area higher than armpit is affected by arm movement, any horizontal pocket there would be gaping open every time you reach forward and the chest is already protruding and rest against bone really not ideal to place a useful pocket on, somehow I always like lower set chest pockets both for look and usefulness

even on cross zip I still use the center line as a reference to symmetry and balance. I'm stuck with seeing this slanting zipper as a visual problem to solve around rather than a design feature to embrace. that was a little update, I'm still stuck with that small pocket, for whatever reason I like it, I made it counter slant and thinner, the epaulette is secured with a toggle since the hide is going to be hard vegtan again, and I'm afraid it will get frequently popped off when using snap everytime I shrugged or rotate my shoulder. color is blackened nat vegtan, will paint the surface in diluted black translucent black and seal it to get some sheen, the belt is 3mm nat vegtan (still not sure if I would paint the belt only on the grain side or both sides)
View attachment 314999

However the final product is designed I can’t wait to see it. This is going to be so cool.

roadking04 · Mar 4, 2021

I think you should keep the baby pocket. You have a use for it. I think you would regret the decision of removing it. I think this jacket is gonna be awesome. I can't wait to see it come to life.

navetsea · Mar 4, 2021

Thanks

dannyk said:
However the final product is designed I can’t wait to see it. This is going to be so cool.

roadking04 said:
I think you should keep the baby pocket. You have a use for it. I think you would regret the decision of removing it. I think this jacket is gonna be awesome. I can't wait to see it come to life.

Yeah, I sit on it, took several days, made several other configurations, but my eyes keep looking back at my first version, so i change the patch a little so the bottom dont make the leather crease into a point overtime, now more a D than a shield, tweak the angles , turn the small pocket off, on, off, on. Lol
yesterday and today i got delivery of the hardwares

i like the buckle, exactly the same i have on one of my belt bought locally here, i think i found the manufacturer of these buckle, i realize now i paid $35-$60 for a locally made veg tan belt that cost $3 buckle, $7 leather blank belt grade a 3mm thick, and $2 a pair of screws

, no wonder all the new comer leather artisans are all making belt and wristband...

air · Mar 5, 2021

navetsea said:
even on cross zip I still use the center line as a reference to symmetry and balance. I'm stuck with seeing this slanting zipper as a visual problem to solve around rather than a design feature to embrace.
View attachment 314999

The asymmetric zipper and neck closure, the lapels and the collar in cross zips seem inspired by pea coats. In this sense I think their origin is heavily influenced by functionality, and the ways we are used to balancing this asymmetry are also based in function. Police jackets like the one I posted above place the badge on the large side, D pocket jackets take advantage of the asymmetry to have a larger pocket than would be normal on a straight zip, regular MC jackets use a coin pocket to fill up the space.

Aesthetically, the type and color of hardware, the large collar and lapels, zipper pulls or detailing around pockets, sometimes even a full out two color scheme is used to tie everything in as part of the whole despite the asymmetry.
Another trick is playing with the way the jacket curves around your body, jackets with more vertical handwarmer pockets sometimes hide them in the sides and then have only the middle pockets in the large side visible.

https://thedi-leathers.com/product/mtc-w1279125/

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/two-tone-trojan.93067/

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/thr...acket-–-excellent-condition-–-size-40.101977/

navetsea said:
Thanks

Yeah, I sit on it, took several days, made several other configurations, but my eyes keep looking back at my first version, so i change the patch a little so the bottom dont make the leather crease into a point overtime, now more a D than a shield, tweak the angles , turn the small pocket off, on, off, on. Lol
yesterday and today i got delivery of the hardwares
View attachment 315117
i like the buckle, exactly the same i have on one of my belt bought locally here, i think i found the manufacturer of these buckle, i realize now i paid $35-$60 for a locally made veg tan belt that cost $3 buckle, $7 leather blank belt grade a 3mm thick, and $2 a pair of screws, no wonder all the new comer leather artisans are all making belt and wristband...

In your previous post you spoke of dying the jacket yourself, and now you also bought the hardware, are you making the jacket yourself, or will you send the materials to a maker and then complete it at home?
Is the small pocket placed to the side to allow for an inner pocket? Looking at the pocket placement on the large side I think you have deliberately tried to used ALL the available pocket space, even the angles of the pockets seem to be considered to make sure there's really enough space for the pocket inside without overlapping

About the patch pocket, are you sure there is enough space in the narrow side of the zip to fit it comfortably?
As a last step in the design process I think you could use paper tape with a weak adhesive to mark pocket placement in a jacket you already own and see how it looks when you wear it to get an idea of how the design will look on your body. If you do this remember to remove the tape right after and wipe the area, any glue can be vicious when left for long periods.

navetsea · Mar 5, 2021

air said:
The asymmetric zipper and neck closure, the lapels and the collar in cross zips seem inspired by pea coats. In this sense I think their origin is heavily influenced by functionality, and the ways we are used to balancing this asymmetry are also based in function. Police jackets like the one I posted above place the badge on the large side, D pocket jackets take advantage of the asymmetry to have a larger pocket than would be normal on a straight zip, regular MC jackets use a coin pocket to fill up the space.

Aesthetically, the type and color of hardware, the large collar and lapels, zipper pulls or detailing around pockets, sometimes even a full out two color scheme is used to tie everything in as part of the whole despite the asymmetry.
Another trick is playing with the way the jacket curves around your body, jackets with more vertical handwarmer pockets sometimes hide them in the sides and then have only the middle pockets in the large side visible.

https://thedi-leathers.com/product/mtc-w1279125/

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/two-tone-trojan.93067/

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/branded-garments-vintage-mc-jacket-–-excellent-condition-–-size-40.101977/

In your previous post you spoke of dying the jacket yourself, and now you also bought the hardware, are you making the jacket yourself, or will you send the materials to a maker and then complete it at home?
Is the small pocket placed to the side to allow for an inner pocket? Looking at the pocket placement on the large side I think you have deliberately tried to used ALL the available pocket space, even the angles of the pockets seem to be considered to make sure there's really enough space for the pocket inside without overlapping
About the patch pocket, are you sure there is enough space in the narrow side of the zip to fit it comfortably?
As a last step in the design process I think you could use paper tape with a weak adhesive to mark pocket placement in a jacket you already own and see how it looks when you wear it to get an idea of how the design will look on your body. If you do this remember to remove the tape right after and wipe the area, any glue can be vicious when left for long periods.

Thank you Air,
yes in peacoat the decoration buttons help hiding the slant and double breastness, I can see the purpose oriented design elements, many coat and jacket have that features from utilitarian view from war time where function decide how things should look like. Just from some of the photos you attached already shown the slant ness and the starting position and how much front panels overlap is different from one design to the next, mine is starting center on the bottom, then diagonally straight until it reached near the collar bone before it curves a little outward to make more interesting lapel, to make room for the zipper while leaving the chest panel big enough for a patch pocket.

yeah I imagine pocket bags in them too, the zippered pocket bag might overlap a bit to the hand warmer, pocket welt is piped inside, my previous jacket in veg tan has a pocket with welt but I specifically not wanting piping, and it turns quickly gaping open after getting worn wet, this time I hope the piping function as spring to limit that. more vertical handwarmer need zippers to stay flat imo, once gaping open they look like paunch I prefer more slant so when it gaps open it will just sag down but doesnt look like paunchy waist fat

. the side with patch pocket is actually have inner pocket indeed, I have added here on the last drawing

yep have tried duotone before, a bit more contrasting than what RD did... I like it but in everyday live I find it louder and unless I wear pants that works in the color tone I don't wear it as much as I want to because I like how that jacket look, if it was just blue without the tan panel, I would wear it 300% more in retrospect

.

I would have my drawing printed, and haul everything to a jacket tailor I'm a long time client of. last 2 projects I began sourcing my own material to get closer to the look I imagined, with soft leather usually the jacket turned totally different than what I imagine after broken in and left me with what if the leather was better feel. This one I want my own version of "teacore" have no real budget to import stuff so I thought heck I gave it a DIY try..will pat the color with a piece of tshirt wrapped over a sponge and pat pat pat the color allover it, I hope it turns marbled an not streaky.

pocket placements is indeed done when I wear the prototype, with double tape, and sometime on the leather again for final time, glue residue on leather can be cleaned easily with rubberband

to mark spot on leather usually you can buy erasable silver ballpoint that comes with its eraser. it doesn't absorb into leather ( I still think it will absorb into natural veg tan

I prefer using blunt pencil and use poster tack putty to erase personally )

yellowfever · Mar 5, 2021

This is a wonderful idea for a thread! I think we can all enjoy living vicariously as jacket designers, especially when we won’t have to live with any of our mistakes!

That said I have every confidence, based on your wonderful previous jacket design, that you’ll successfully avoid being led too astray by any of us...

I shall follow progress with great interest...

My thoughts/suggestions for mistakes

to incorporate in your emerging design for what they are worth:

- I agree with the point already made of embracing the asymmetry, that’s the whole point of the cross zip. It’s a feature to be highlighted, not a flaw to be hidden. I’d even be tempted to have a contrast main zipper tape. Another name for a cross zip - a lancer front - touches on the inspirations and origins of this type of design in cavalry jackets when the overlap was typically more extreme. Actually I like quite extreme cross zips like the shields racing shirt (sometimes described as a fencing jacket style) although they may be a bit impractical to wear unzipped... the little seen deaths head cascade Langlitz also fascinâtes me and I think the design of the Himel Chevalier is widely admired, including by me. I realise symmetry is meant to be more aesthetically pleasing (indeed people with more symmetrical faces are generally deemed more attractive). But symmetry can also look too perfect and bland IMO, maybe even boring. The most attractive things (and people) are often those daring to be different and having some interesting asymmetry if only to highlight the perfection elsewhere. Think supermodel Cindy Crawford’s beauty spot which she famously refused to have removed...

- the baby pocket is widely disliked and I’m afraid I feel similarly - it just looks too busy with everything else going on.. I liked the suggestion of a loop or slot for your sunglasses leg as an alternate to the baby pocket (this could perhaps be done in such a way as to make a nice nod at the police badge holders on CHP jackets). Another option is to keep the baby pocket but delete the upper zipper slant pocket. That way you have balanced hand warmers either side, and higher up the shield pocket on one side balanced by the baby pocket on the other (and maybe you could swap those two over so the baby pocket is on the RHS where there is less room allowing a bigger shield pocket on the left sort of nodding at D pockets. Maybe even on a bit of a slant like a map pocket...). A larger shield pocket would also be more practical for access and storage, the larger size making it less stiff and unwieldy to use...

- on the belt, again it adds a lot to the jacket which already has a lot going on, maybe too much? Though I confess to having ‘less is more’ tendencies. If you want a belt I liked the suggestion to have the belt run in a tunnel across the back. It’s a nice nod to some vintage designs as noted already, gives a cleaner and less fussy back (given the front will be busy) and is practical as it doesn’t get it the way, or scratch or catch in anything including when sitting. Plus it still looks good if the belt is removed, giving you different wearing options. A couple of loops on the front would then be all you need. I know belts are often thinner and more narrow at the front so they hang down better when undone, but personally it looks odd to me to have a butch heavy bike jacket with a suitably heavy duty belt that then ends in a comparatively wimpy whimper at the front... I’d rather a solid belt all round, or have no belt, or a simple short fixed belt or else an overlapping leather hem with a snap (it’s certainly good to have something to take the strain off the zipper pin and box when the jacket is done up).

- the dramatic collar is a big part of classic cross zips and I like snaps to fix it in place both when the jacket is open, part open and fully closed. Looks neater, nods to its bike jacket purpose (no flapping collar when riding) and the snaps add some interest (though I do think you need to be careful not to make this too busy, plus you’ll need to suitably deconflict snaps and pockets... )

- Personally I’d make the collar and main cross zip the features - they are after all the archetypal different elements brought by the cross zip compared to straight zips - and dial down the rest eg more discrete handwarmer pockets on the sides, as someone already suggested and/or, fewer other pockets and/or no belt or a less fussy one

Good luck!

navetsea · Mar 5, 2021

air said:
The asymmetric zipper and neck closure, the lapels and the collar in cross zips seem inspired by pea coats. In this sense I think their origin is heavily influenced by functionality, and the ways we are used to balancing this asymmetry are also based in function. Police jackets like the one I posted above place the badge on the large side, D pocket jackets take advantage of the asymmetry to have a larger pocket than would be normal on a straight zip, regular MC jackets use a coin pocket to fill up the space.

I like this config but without the yoke, looks cool

yellowfever said:
This is a wonderful idea for a thread! I think we can all enjoy living vicariously as jacket designers, especially when we won’t have to live with any of our mistakes!

That said I have every confidence, based on your wonderful previous jacket design, that you’ll successfully avoid being led too astray by any of us...

I shall follow progress with great interest...

My thoughts/suggestions for mistakes to incorporate in your emerging design for what they are worth:

- I agree with the point already made of embracing the asymmetry, that’s the whole point of the cross zip. It’s a feature to be highlighted, not a flaw to be hidden. I’d even be tempted to have a contrast main zipper tape. Another name for a cross zip - a lancer front - touches on the inspirations and origins of this type of design in cavalry jackets when the overlap was typically more extreme. Actually I like quite extreme cross zips like the shields racing shirt (sometimes described as a fencing jacket style) although they may be a bit impractical to wear unzipped... the little seen deaths head cascade Langlitz also fascinâtes me and I think the design of the Himel Chevalier is widely admired, including by me. I realise symmetry is meant to be more aesthetically pleasing (indeed people with more symmetrical faces are generally deemed more attractive). But symmetry can also look too perfect and bland IMO, maybe even boring. The most attractive things (and people) are often those daring to be different and having some interesting asymmetry if only to highlight the perfection elsewhere. Think supermodel Cindy Crawford’s beauty spot which she famously refused to have removed...

- the baby pocket is widely disliked and I’m afraid I feel similarly - it just looks too busy with everything else going on.. I liked the suggestion of a loop or slot for your sunglasses leg as an alternate to the baby pocket (this could perhaps be done in such a way as to make a nice nod at the police badge holders on CHP jackets). Another option is to keep the baby pocket but delete the upper zipper slant pocket. That way you have balanced hand warmers either side, and higher up the shield pocket on one side balanced by the baby pocket on the other (and maybe you could swap those two over so the baby pocket is on the RHS where there is less room allowing a bigger shield pocket on the left sort of nodding at D pockets. Maybe even on a bit of a slant like a map pocket...). A larger shield pocket would also be more practical for access and storage, the larger size making it less stiff and unwieldy to use...

- on the belt, again it adds a lot to the jacket which already has a lot going on, maybe too much? Though I confess to having ‘less is more’ tendencies. If you want a belt I liked the suggestion to have the belt run in a tunnel across the back. It’s a nice nod to some vintage designs as noted already, gives a cleaner and less fussy back (given the front will be busy) and is practical as it doesn’t get it the way, or scratch or catch in anything including when sitting. Plus it still looks good if the belt is removed, giving you different wearing options. A couple of loops on the front would then be all you need. I know belts are often thinner and more narrow at the front so they hang down better when undone, but personally it looks odd to me to have a butch heavy bike jacket with a suitably heavy duty belt that then ends in a comparatively wimpy whimper at the front... I’d rather a solid belt all round, or have no belt, or a simple short fixed belt or else an overlapping leather hem with a snap (it’s certainly good to have something to take the strain off the zipper pin and box when the jacket is done up).

- the dramatic collar is a big part of classic cross zips and I like snaps to fix it in place both when the jacket is open, part open and fully closed. Looks neater, nods to its bike jacket purpose (no flapping collar when riding) and the snaps add some interest (though I do think you need to be careful not to make this too busy, plus you’ll need to suitably deconflict snaps and pockets... )

- Personally I’d make the collar and main cross zip the features - they are after all the archetypal different elements brought by the cross zip compared to straight zips - and dial down the rest eg more discrete handwarmer pockets on the sides, as someone already suggested and/or, fewer other pockets and/or no belt or a less fussy one

Good luck!

thanks man, I agree, it is a mental thing in me to want symmetry in jacket, maybe because I have also mole on my face and one ear sticking out all on the left side of my head, maybe that make me obsessed more toward something more symmetrical on jacket, I don't want symmetrical house or room decoration

this is purely on jacket and shirt pocket as I can't live with one shirt pocket on left chest, thats just mental thing.

MrProper · Mar 5, 2021

navetsea said:

There is something. Kind of cool.

navetsea · Mar 5, 2021

navetsea · Mar 5, 2021

Riu · Mar 5, 2021

navetsea said:
View attachment 315457

I like the first version better. To me, that's just enough

Monitor · Mar 5, 2021

yellowfever said:
This is a wonderful idea for a thread! I think we can all enjoy living vicariously as jacket designers, especially when we won’t have to live with any of our mistakes!

That said I have every confidence, based on your wonderful previous jacket design, that you’ll successfully avoid being led too astray by any of us...

I shall follow progress with great interest...

My thoughts/suggestions for mistakes to incorporate in your emerging design for what they are worth:

- I agree with the point already made of embracing the asymmetry, that’s the whole point of the cross zip. It’s a feature to be highlighted, not a flaw to be hidden. I’d even be tempted to have a contrast main zipper tape. Another name for a cross zip - a lancer front - touches on the inspirations and origins of this type of design in cavalry jackets when the overlap was typically more extreme. Actually I like quite extreme cross zips like the shields racing shirt (sometimes described as a fencing jacket style) although they may be a bit impractical to wear unzipped... the little seen deaths head cascade Langlitz also fascinâtes me and I think the design of the Himel Chevalier is widely admired, including by me. I realise symmetry is meant to be more aesthetically pleasing (indeed people with more symmetrical faces are generally deemed more attractive). But symmetry can also look too perfect and bland IMO, maybe even boring. The most attractive things (and people) are often those daring to be different and having some interesting asymmetry if only to highlight the perfection elsewhere. Think supermodel Cindy Crawford’s beauty spot which she famously refused to have removed...

- the baby pocket is widely disliked and I’m afraid I feel similarly - it just looks too busy with everything else going on.. I liked the suggestion of a loop or slot for your sunglasses leg as an alternate to the baby pocket (this could perhaps be done in such a way as to make a nice nod at the police badge holders on CHP jackets). Another option is to keep the baby pocket but delete the upper zipper slant pocket. That way you have balanced hand warmers either side, and higher up the shield pocket on one side balanced by the baby pocket on the other (and maybe you could swap those two over so the baby pocket is on the RHS where there is less room allowing a bigger shield pocket on the left sort of nodding at D pockets. Maybe even on a bit of a slant like a map pocket...). A larger shield pocket would also be more practical for access and storage, the larger size making it less stiff and unwieldy to use...

- on the belt, again it adds a lot to the jacket which already has a lot going on, maybe too much? Though I confess to having ‘less is more’ tendencies. If you want a belt I liked the suggestion to have the belt run in a tunnel across the back. It’s a nice nod to some vintage designs as noted already, gives a cleaner and less fussy back (given the front will be busy) and is practical as it doesn’t get it the way, or scratch or catch in anything including when sitting. Plus it still looks good if the belt is removed, giving you different wearing options. A couple of loops on the front would then be all you need. I know belts are often thinner and more narrow at the front so they hang down better when undone, but personally it looks odd to me to have a butch heavy bike jacket with a suitably heavy duty belt that then ends in a comparatively wimpy whimper at the front... I’d rather a solid belt all round, or have no belt, or a simple short fixed belt or else an overlapping leather hem with a snap (it’s certainly good to have something to take the strain off the zipper pin and box when the jacket is done up).

- the dramatic collar is a big part of classic cross zips and I like snaps to fix it in place both when the jacket is open, part open and fully closed. Looks neater, nods to its bike jacket purpose (no flapping collar when riding) and the snaps add some interest (though I do think you need to be careful not to make this too busy, plus you’ll need to suitably deconflict snaps and pockets... )

- Personally I’d make the collar and main cross zip the features - they are after all the archetypal different elements brought by the cross zip compared to straight zips - and dial down the rest eg more discrete handwarmer pockets on the sides, as someone already suggested and/or, fewer other pockets and/or no belt or a less fussy one

Good luck!

Excellent observations, agreed with every point. First paragraph is exactly what I love about the Perfecto styled jackets; that lack of symmetry, embracing the asymmetrical. Chaos. There's a certain look to the jacket, as if its early origins lie in something that has been simply slapped together as a makeshift tool without any particular care for the aesthetics, instead of being a carefully designed garment - which, in truth, it is.

And I agree about the belt - Never imagined a full belt on a jacket could be as annoying as I find it to be and any belt that wasn't permanently attached to any of my jackets would immediately found itself tossed in some drawer. Might just be me but I do fear you'd find it bothersome too, @navetsea. I know a few other members who never wear theirs, as well.

On the other hand, I find the attached Perfecto belt aesthetically pleasing and I'd rather my jacket has it than not.

Thus I still say the only option for my custom made jacket would either be a tunnel on the back which would hold the belt very securely into place, keep it in place and in check, or a fully attached half-belt sorta deal, like on most Perfectos. Or ideally, no belt at all.

To be honest, I don't appreciate any of the more recent alterations done to this fantastic jacket. Every modification any new maker adds to it just sucks out the cool that this jacket has once been an epitome of. Taming the angle of the main zipper, lengthening the entire jacket, killing the lapels, etc. I like Fine Creek's version of the Perfecto only on the photos where it's not worn. Once someone puts it on, looks like a business suit coat.

navetsea · Mar 5, 2021

OK I'll try to embrace the chaos Monitor

, I understand the benefit and cool look of the belt tunneling behind kidney panel, although if I do hate the belt do to its extra weight or clumsiness etc, then it would left me a kidney panel marked with a ghosted belt that once ran through it. my belt would be a full scale heavy belt tho so I would still wear it with jeans in worse case scenario

hopefully I like it on the jacket.
my jacket would be kind of short, as hinted by sleeve VS body length and I would wear the lapel a bit (or a lot more) more spread than these pictures, I fold the lapel high here so not to obscure details, I learned vegtan bricked when wet and creases get seriously taking away sleeve length and so I spec my sleeve longer now although on the drawing I probably over compensate with sleeve length

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Monitor · Mar 5, 2021

navetsea said:
OK I'll try to embrace the chaos Monitor, I understand the benefit and cool look of the belt tunneling behind kidney panel, although if I do hate the belt do to its extra weight or clumsiness etc, then it would left me a kidney panel marked with a ghosted belt that once ran through it. my belt would be a full scale heavy belt tho so I would still wear it with jeans in worse case scenariohopefully I like it on the jacket.
my jacket would be kind of short, as hinted by sleeve VS body length and I would wear the lapel a bit (or a lot more) more spread than these pictures, I fold the lapel high here so not to obscure details, I learned vegtan bricked when wet and creases get seriously taking away sleeve length and so I spec my sleeve longer now although on the drawing I probably over compensate with sleeve length
View attachment 315529
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Another thing, if you're not going for the classic German cross-zip motorcycle jacket, I'd get rid of the white parts as that's a major detail on their styles, appearing regularly since the 60's. I personally love it but it definitely belongs to their super cool jackets.

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