Finds and Deals - Leather Jacket Edition

For @Carlos840's sake I hope it's genuine, but the fact that the seller has many other sizes plants a seed of doubt.

Leigh H said:

I think you’re right, the label is very suspicious, the type on the right side of the label has no breathing space it’s touching the border.

Compared to others

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Yep, i was just comparing to my Vanson labels and noticed the same thing...
The leather also looks very very smooth for a vanson from that era.
Hmmmm, not sure what to do about that...

Never heard of fake Vansons, is that a thing? The seller seems to have a fine rating. As far as the label goes, it could just be a misprint/shobby stitchwork. Leather quality can vary heavily, and these pics haven't been taken in the best lighting with the best camera available.

I really hope it's the real deal, Carlos. Also because I'm eyeballing one myself . You'll know for sure when you hold the jacket in your hands. Perhaps at worst, you'll get a very decent quality 'repro' at a fair price.

It‘s not just the spacing of the words, I compared to Vanson labels from three decades (which are fairly consistent and all three very unlike this one), there‘s a whole bunch flaws with the label.

Carlos840 said:

Yep, i was just comparing to my Vanson labels and noticed the same thing...
The leather also looks very very smooth for a vanson from that era.
Hmmmm, not sure what to do about that...

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Report to ebay / paypal that this seller sold you fake goods and demand your money back?

Marc mndt said:

Report to ebay / paypal that this seller sold you fake goods and demand your money back?

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I sent the pics to Vanson, see what they say.
Buyee holds the item for 30 days so i have time to sort it out.

I also compared these pics to all my Vansons, also spread over three decades (90s, 2000s and 2010s) and none look similar.
I never thought there was a market for fake Vansons...

There's 13 dots that make the flagpole vs 17 of the original.

What is weird is that the seller is also selling a bunch of these Suede ones and the label looks correct in these:

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/p853497472

If both jackets where fake why use a correct label on one but not the other?

Carlos840 said:

What is weird is that the seller is also selling a bunch of these Suede ones and the label looks correct in these:

https://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/p853497472

If both jackets where fake why use a correct label on one but not the other?

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Maybe the seller himself doesn't know some of his jackets are fake. ( And some original)

The thing I notice most about the label is the double lines of vertical stitching.

The plot thickens...

I was looking at pics, comparaing @JMax s Cheyenne and the Buyee one.

Look at the two buttons either side of the front yoke seam, on J's they are evenly spaced above and below the yoke:



Compare to the Buyee one, that are not evenly spaced either side of the yoke:



Buyee jacket is fake then?

Well, look at the Vanson catalogue pic, it looks just like the spacing on the Buyee one:



Clearly they have variations for things like that...

I then looked at all my labels, they are very similar, but there is variation, especially in the way the label is framed, some of mine have solid gold edges top and bottom, some do not.

Even the labels of my two commandos are different even thought they where built the same year:




All that to say, i really don't know if this thing is real or not...
I sent pics to Vanson and to Constantine, will let you guys know what they say.

Details don't mean anything at all when it comes to Vanson. They're all over the place. Check out my jacket below. 6 snaps instead of 7, seemingly at random, completely disregarding the decorative triangle stitching and yet, it's a bona fide genuine Vanson Cheyenne, confirmed by Vanson themselves.

Plus if I'm not mistaken, the tag looks exactly the same as on the Buyee Vanson.

Now that the others have mentioned it, the leather on that jacket does seem a bit off but that often was the case and besides, I don't know... Who the heck would copy a Vanson??? And why?

Monitor said:

Details don't mean anything at all when it comes to Vanson. They're all over the place. Check out my jacket below. 6 snaps instead of 7, installed at the worst possible places (one over decorative triangle stitching!) and yet, it's a bona fide genuine Vanson Cheyenne, confirmed by Vanson themselves.

Plus if I'm not mistaken, the tag looks exactly the same as on the Japanese Vanson.

Now that the others have mentioned it, the leather on that jacket does seem a bit off but that often was the case and besides, I don't know... Who the heck would copy a Vanson??? And why?

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Yeah. If it were a fake, the ratio of effort to reward seems off here. A fake that looks this convincing would kind of imply an economy of scale for producing said fakes, and I couldn't find any documentation online of fake Vansons. Seems more likely its legit to me, just because I don't see how anybody would be making a profit in this case.

JurassicUtility said:

Yeah. If it were a fake, the ratio of effort to reward seems off here. A fake that looks this convincing would kind of imply an economy of scale for producing said fakes, and I couldn't find any documentation online of fake Vansons. Seems more likely its legit to me, just because I don't see how anybody would be making a profit in this case.

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Agreed, i have been googling "fake Vanson", "conterfeit Vanson" etc and cannot find any mention of fakes vansons anywhere online.
If it was a common thing wouldn't we know more about it?
Also, why counterfeit an obscure 90s trucker and not something worth big money like the Supreme jackets?
It seems like a lot of effort for little returns...

Carlos840 said:

Agreed, i have been googling "fake Vanson", "conterfeit Vanson" etc and cannot find any mention of fakes vansons anywhere online.
If it was a common thing wouldn't we know more about it?
Also, why counterfeit an obscure 90s trucker and not something worth big money like the Supreme jackets?
It seems like a lot of effort for little returns...

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You’ll probably know when you have it in hand. Another possibility for the low price is that the seller got legit Vanson off the back of a truck. Good luck bud.

Out of curiosity, how much was shipping? And who is moving the jacket?

If it's real, it'll have a serial number embossed into the leather on the inside of the jacket somewhere, and Vanson can tell you it's authentic. I don't want to throw any more fuel on this fire, but to me the photos on the seller's listing look authentic enough. But I'm no expert. It'd be a good idea for the admins to move this side conversation to a new thread and stay on topic here.

Carlos840 said:

Agreed, i have been googling "fake Vanson", "conterfeit Vanson" etc and cannot find any mention of fakes vansons anywhere online.
If it was a common thing wouldn't we know more about it?
Also, why counterfeit an obscure 90s trucker and not something worth big money like the Supreme jackets?
It seems like a lot of effort for little returns...

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I completely agree. This isn’t something anyone would bother knocking off. My guess is this is dead stock from a street wear focused shop, given the other stuff he has. They aren’t even all that cheap, a good deal for sure, but hardly giving them away.

I’m following this with a good deal of interest as last night on a whim I bid on the size 44 Cheyenne, and of course won it this morning. Then see this thread...

Monitor said:

Someone must've returned this bad boi as it's back on sale. It's just too cool. I know you can make one yourself but there are SO many cool pins on it... If I had infinite amount of money, I'd buy it in a nano-second, just to have it exhibited on a wall as a work of art. Anyway... Pricey, I know, but nothing new you can buy will top this in the cool department.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194075295005

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*Very* much a British rocker jacket, though of a later period. There's some American influence here - the half-belt at the front is very much a US influence in style, 50s-60s British bike jackets in my experience were somewhat more likely to have side-buckles, though as ever there were exceptions (also the Harley bits rather than British bike brands, or - as was the case by the early 70s - Japanese). Clix zips and those zipper pull shapes are very common on British bike jackets of the 60s / 70s. I'd guess with big zip and padded shoulders the later 70s into early eighties is fairly likely. The band badges and Nazi badges put it squarely in the heavy metal fraternity. Some British punks also dabbled with the swastika's power to offend (the 'establishment' in those days still very much people who had actually lived through WW2; wearing the badge of The Enemy offended in a different way than as opposed to now). No self-respecting, Year-Zero punk would have been seen wearing a Zeppelin or Black Sabbath patch! What makes me think the guy who owned this actually rode (apart from the one or two small, British maker bike badges I see on close inspection, plus the 'Piston Broke Club' badge) is the cartoon character patch on the inside right breast - the little biker figure with the winged helmet. That's a character called Ogri, a sort of rocker-type biker who appeared in a strip in Bike magazine from '72 to 2009, thereafter in Back Street Heroes custom bike magazine. Not a character who had any real exposure outside the readership for Bike back in the day.

Oh.... also notice the fringing. Fringing wasn't unknown on British bike jackets, though usually much shorter a la the Lewis or Highwayman jackets. The fringed version of Aero's 59er HWM is a very accurate repop of a British fringed jacket in the 60s. This longer, American-type fringe was, as far as anything I've ever seen, not something that made it into the UK until towards the 70s. It was a popular look I remember among the metal crowd in the eighties, though I never cared for it myself.

Claybertrand said:

Wasn't Lemmy from Motorhead buried in this jacket??????

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Very much his style! Certainly he was a big fan of the Nazi paraphernalia - even if he was blatantly not actually a Nazi.

Here's a few really nice Vanson jackets on Yahoo Japan Auctions:

1) This is a unique, possibly custom jacket in size 42. It looks like a LAPD/CHP jacket, but with a band collar. Has langlitz columbia and cascade vibes. Looks well used, nicely broken in. Size 42, about $500.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/x760774697



2. Enfield, size 38, in black horsehide. Some wear evident, Very nice condition, and a very reasonable $~450. If you're a size 38, this is a steal.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r430959467

3. Enfield, comp weight, 42, outstanding condition $~400. I'm tempted, but tapped out for now.

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c901724022

Guppy said:

If it's real, it'll have a serial number embossed into the leather on the inside of the jacket somewhere, and Vanson can tell you it's authentic. I don't want to throw any more fuel on this fire, but to me the photos on the seller's listing look authentic enough. But I'm no expert. It'd be a good idea for the admins to move this side conversation to a new thread and stay on topic here.

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Not always, my Swedish rider jackets don't have a number, some real Vanson jackets make it through without a number...