Current US-Made 22oz and up Selvage Jeans Availability?

Monitor · Jun 21, 2021

I still prefer heavier denim though numbers no longer play any role in my choice of jeans. But I won't buy a pair I find flimsy and thin. Like I mentioned elsewhere, a right pair of Italian made Diesel jeans is what I've so far been happiest with and by far at that, but they're by no means light and I'd easily compare them to, I don't know, what IH sells under 18oz.

As for durability of heavyweight jeans, I don't see why they wouldn't last you the same as any other pair, with the additional bonus of being much more damage-proof as 22+oz denim makes up for a really tough fabric. But I just don't see any logic behind any of the theories on why heavy denim would (not) last longer.

dwilson · Jun 21, 2021

breezer said:
always wondered about the wearability of heavy denim.......not sure I understand the appeal?

I've engaged with denim fans longer than leather and a pretty consistent thing I've seen is there are a few camps of where I see people land on heavy denim.

One is they want the absolute most insane contrast fading. Heavy denim will by it's nature tend to settle with more aggressive peaks and valleys. This will lead to overall more contrasting whiskering and honeycombing.

Another is using the weight of the denim as justification for the cost of the pants. This is something I see fairly often with newer people into the hobby. Its impossible to logically justify spending $300 on a pair of jeans when you can buy some from Gap for $30. So a pretty big reason for saying its worth it is simply by getting a fabric impossible to attain at the mall and those fabrics are either heavy weight, insanely slubby, crazy neppy, warp/weft combos ... basically anything you can't find at a reasonable price.

Third is durability. Dude kind of said it already but my experience is this isn't necessarily true and when combined with the first point about extreme peaks and valleys can lead to really fast freying if you don't wash the denim at some cadence.

Fourth is warmth. As others have said this isn't exactly dictated by the weight of the denim more so with the looseness of the weave. But overall yes heavier denim tends to hold in heat better as you would expect. The problem for me is I can get pretty sweaty if my skin can't breath even in cool weather so heavy denim always leads to just overall swampyness for me. YMMV, though.

Fifth, and likely most paramount, is just personal preference. Not everything has to be justified and reasoned out. Some people just like heavy denim.

ES335 · Jun 21, 2021

dwilson said:
I've engaged with denim fans longer than leather and a pretty consistent thing I've seen is there are a few camps of where I see people land on heavy denim.

One is they want the absolute most insane contrast fading. Heavy denim will by it's nature tend to settle with more aggressive peaks and valleys. This will lead to overall more contrasting whiskering and honeycombing.

Another is using the weight of the denim as justification for the cost of the pants. This is something I see fairly often with newer people into the hobby. Its impossible to logically justify spending $300 on a pair of jeans when you can buy some from Gap for $30. So a pretty big reason for saying its worth it is simply by getting a fabric impossible to attain at the mall and those fabrics are either heavy weight, insanely slubby, crazy neppy, warp/weft combos ... basically anything you can't find at a reasonable price.

Third is durability. Dude kind of said it already but my experience is this isn't necessarily true and when combined with the first point about extreme peaks and valleys can lead to really fast freying if you don't wash the denim at some cadence.

Fourth is warmth. As others have said this isn't exactly dictated by the weight of the denim more so with the looseness of the weave. But overall yes heavier denim tends to hold in heat better as you would expect. The problem for me is I can get pretty sweaty if my skin can't breath even in cool weather so heavy denim always leads to just overall swampyness for me. YMMV, though.

Fifth, and likely most paramount, is just personal preference. Not everything has to be justified and reasoned out. Some people just like heavy denim.

I agreed with a lot of this, thanks dwilson. I can't justify $450 jeans when Bravestar will sell me a great pair of 22.5oz pants, cuffed and delivered to Baltimore from LA in 2 days for about $150. I do buy thin, cheap, disposable Wranglers from Target for work only for $20. out the door and less occasionally Levi 505's for work/whatever wear. Being 59 I'm definitely not a "skinny jeans" guy, they look uncomfortable not to mention clownish/silly as hell to me. The Bravestar/Tellason jeans from 15-22oz I've bought over the past 6 weeks or so are getting worn around the house and so far are breaking in very nicely with very cool shades of beautiful indigo. I'd love to try even heavier and have them broken in by fall.

Jules Myers · Jun 22, 2021

ES335 said:
I agreed with a lot of this, thanks dwilson. I can't justify $450 jeans when Bravestar will sell me a great pair of 22.5oz pants, cuffed and delivered to Baltimore from LA in 2 days for about $150. I do buy thin, cheap, disposable Wranglers from Target for work only for $20. out the door and less occasionally Levi 505's for work/whatever wear. Being 59 I'm definitely not a "skinny jeans" guy, they look uncomfortable not to mention clownish/silly as hell to me. The Bravestar/Tellason jeans from 15-22oz I've bought over the past 6 weeks or so are getting worn around the house and so far are breaking in very nicely with very cool shades of beautiful indigo. I'd love to try even heavier and have them broken in by fall.

I won’t lie; those 25 oz IH 666 are the first pair of pants where I’ve kept track of the number of hours I’ve worn them. Part of that is one suffers in Virginia in the summertime while wearing jeans that heavy. But the other part is—of course—it’s a bear to break them in. I’d say they’re definitely easier to wear than they were 40 hours ago. But I look forward to these guys getting all broken in, soft and comfy with some character lines by the winter time.

ES335 · Jun 22, 2021

Jules Myers said:
I won’t lie; those 25 oz IH 666 are the first pair of pants where I’ve kept track of the number of hours I’ve worn them. Part of that is one suffers in Virginia in the summertime while wearing jeans that heavy. But the other part is—of course—it’s a bear to break them in. I’d say they’re definitely easier to wear than they were 40 hours ago. But I look forward to these guys getting all broken in, soft and comfy with some character lines by the winter time.

I hear you on that heat, Jules- it's brutal here too and just stepping out for the mail was a chore today in my 18oz'ers. Good luck with and enjoy your Iron Hearts!

navetsea · Jun 22, 2021

I like heavy denim, i wear mall jeans too, but I like some stretch in mall jeans, without some stretch thin jeans seems more prone to rip at stress point like near the knee since I wear my jeans on the slim side along the upper leg. I like how thick denim creases and rolls less but bigger and rounder rather than making square and pointy small creases like light and medium weight denim... just a preference.

Harris HTM · Jun 22, 2021

My 25oz IH is by far the warmest pair of trousers I've got, much warmer (and windproof) than any of my tweed pants. The main reason I own a couple of 21oz+ pairs is walking to the train station at 06.00 in the morning during the Dutch winter.
That said, from May to October I prefer 14oz or lower.

Bfd70 · Jun 22, 2021

ES335 said:
I hear you on that heat, Jules- it's brutal here too and just stepping out for the mail was a chore today in my 18oz'ers. Good luck with and enjoy your Iron Hearts!

I don’t wear mine year round. Pretty much just nov until march in the midwest. This may be over thinking but i wear 22oz in winter, 14 spring and fall and 10 oz in the summer. The weight seems to matter for thermal comfort for me.

Edward · Jun 22, 2021

dudewuttheheck said:
I don't understand it either. I've owned heavy jeans and I grew out of that phase pretty quickly. They're not as comfortable, they are not actually more durable as many people like to claim, they fade weird, and they rarely have good subtle character in the fabric.

I still to more repro-oriented, classic style jeans in 11-15oz.

I always fancy trying some, but I'm not sold enough on the idea of paying so much more than a pair of 13MWZ or similar costs me, especially given there doesn't seem to be much to be gained in durability (for that, I'd probably go looking at the newer motorcycle denims with the polyamide content woven in to a single layer. If those can get an AA rating on the tough ECE standards for MC PPE, I suspect they'd wear well against crotch blowout! The trick would be finding the right cut, of course. Too many denim brands these days lose me because they trumpet great denim, but the cut is too skinny and the waistband several inches south of the actual waist...

breezer · Jun 22, 2021

Too many denim brands these days lose me because they trumpet great denim, but the cut is too skinny and the waistband several inches south of the actual waist...

skinny jean fad is over....see Dawson Denim in the UK for traditional cuts, if thats your thing. Personally, slim straight Levis work for me....non selvedge, with a touch of stretch, very comfortable and durable....cost is around £60. Having said that, if I could afford it I would be all over some The Flat Head jeans.

Will Zach · Jun 22, 2021

I have three pairs of Gustin #26 Super Heavy Slub. Two skinny, one slim. 18 oz, so not really super heavy. I bought them for the fabric - slubby, ropey denim from Japan. I have been into slubby denim for a while now, and I like Gustin's the most. But yeah, the sewing sucks on these. Riveting too. I like the fabric, and the $135 price ain't bad.

ES335 · Jun 22, 2021

Sloppy construction/craftmanship is a complete deal breaker for me. Especially if they want me to wait to receive a sloppy second-rate product.

Will Zach · Jun 22, 2021

^^
In this case, don't get Gustin. I cannot recommend them with clear conscience. Too bad, because their fabrics are very nice.

Blackadder · Jun 22, 2021

dwilson said:
I've engaged with denim fans longer than leather and a pretty consistent thing I've seen is there are a few camps of where I see people land on heavy denim.

One is they want the absolute most insane contrast fading. Heavy denim will by it's nature tend to settle with more aggressive peaks and valleys. This will lead to overall more contrasting whiskering and honeycombing.

Another is using the weight of the denim as justification for the cost of the pants. This is something I see fairly often with newer people into the hobby. Its impossible to logically justify spending $300 on a pair of jeans when you can buy some from Gap for $30. So a pretty big reason for saying its worth it is simply by getting a fabric impossible to attain at the mall and those fabrics are either heavy weight, insanely slubby, crazy neppy, warp/weft combos ... basically anything you can't find at a reasonable price.

Third is durability. Dude kind of said it already but my experience is this isn't necessarily true and when combined with the first point about extreme peaks and valleys can lead to really fast freying if you don't wash the denim at some cadence.

Fourth is warmth. As others have said this isn't exactly dictated by the weight of the denim more so with the looseness of the weave. But overall yes heavier denim tends to hold in heat better as you would expect. The problem for me is I can get pretty sweaty if my skin can't breath even in cool weather so heavy denim always leads to just overall swampyness for me. YMMV, though.

Fifth, and likely most paramount, is just personal preference. Not everything has to be justified and reasoned out. Some people just like heavy denim.

Agree and would like to add that because old jeans are made with coarser cloth using dated machines from less genetically engineered cotton while the new jeans have gone soft and stretchy with more comfortable GE cotton sometimes mixed with other materials. IMO people who want their old rigid jeans back have little idea what weight they were wearing hence they over-estimated or over-compensated. With rougher cloth, jeans would feel thicker and therefore seem heavier than they are.

ES335 · Jun 22, 2021

Will, thanks I appreciate your candor along with another poster's on this thread who echoed a poor experience w/ their QC. It's a shame nice fabric winds up with poor stitching, rivets, etc. My experience with Brave Star was been the exact opposite. Not a bad stitch to be seen, and I look. Cheers!

Phil

Jules Myers · Jun 23, 2021

ES335 said:
Will, thanks I appreciate your candor along with another poster's on this thread who echoed a poor experience w/ their QC. It's a shame nice fabric winds up with poor stitching, rivets, etc. My experience with Brave Star was been the exact opposite. Not a bad stitch to be seen, and I look. Cheers!

Phil

Agreed. Been very happy with the Bravestar!

ES335 · Jun 23, 2021

I just picked up their Badlands Type 2 15.75oz jacket last weekend. Same level of quality. Not a missed stitch, or a lose thread, gorgeous fabric.

Phil

Jules Myers · Jun 23, 2021

ES335 said:
I just picked up their Badlands Type 2 15.75oz jacket last weekend. Same level of quality. Not a missed stitch, or a lose thread, gorgeous fabric.

Phil

Ah, the one that’s sold out?

Pandemic · Jun 23, 2021

I put another pair of Ciano Farmer jeans in the production queue. Now that I’ve dialed-in the fit that I like, I couldn’t turn down a 20% coupon. A replacement pair of 15oz Kojima indigo. Miner cut, which is a true, vintage, straight cut and a high waist with a slimmer top block.

Jules Myers · Jun 23, 2021

JustinW said:
I put another pair of Ciano Farmer jeans in the production queue. Now that I’ve dialed-in the fit that I like, I couldn’t turn down a 20% coupon. A replacement pair of 15oz Kojima indigo. Miner cut, which is a true, vintage, straight cut and a high waist with a slimmer top block.

How high waisted are the Ciano’s? Compared to, say Bravestar or IH?

Current US-Made 22oz and up Selvage Jeans Availability?

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