Buyer Beware. Use Common Sense.

Bump beware this guy tried to scam me, i didn't bite since i'm used to it but still very annoying
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/members/thomas717.59155/

"Greetings,
I just saw your ad which says that you are looking for a B3 rough wear size 40
I have one laid around I'm no longer interested in using. In good condition, I would rate it as 8.5 out of 10.
Pictures and price is available upon request, kindly shoot me colethomas717@gmail.com

Greetings,
I just saw your ad which says that you are looking for a The wild one belt
I have one laid around I'm no longer interested in using. In good condition, I would rate it as 8.5 out of 10.
Pictures and price is available upon request, kindly shoot me colethomas717@gmail.com"

Yep. I got the same email about a jacket I was looking for from the same guy- colethomas717@gmail.com.
Hope no one gets burned by this guy. Beware...

Hopefully someone will "kindly shoot him." lol.

Guppy said:

Hopefully someone will "kindly shoot him." lol.

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Received this the other day about a WTB in the classifieds. Just reported him.

Greetings,
I just saw your ad which says that you are looking for a Mister Freedom Shirts
I have one laid around I'm no longer interested in using. In good condition, I would rate it as 8.5 out of 10.
Pictures and price is available upon request, kindly shoot me colethomas717@gmail.com

Edward said:

That's a nice idea, but unfortunately to the best of my knowledge that's something that would have to be baked in as an option to the forum software - it's not something the Lounge can just slip in as it sits. It could I think in theory be done manually, but with 7,000 member accounts or thereabouts, it's not a practical option.

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A coder could do this fairly easily. If you have a coder for this forum ... who is familiar with it ... maybe an hour or 2 tops

mygar said:

A coder could do this fairly easily. If you have a coder for this forum ... who is familiar with it ... maybe an hour or 2 tops

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I should have put that more clearly: the Lounge runs on proprietary software that we use as a third party, so we're not directly involved at that level. Certainly something management can pass on to the software provider as feedback, but not something we can directly do ourselves. Definitely helpful to have it confirmed that it's viable, though.

This guy contacted me as well - appreciate the public heads up about him.
Saved a lot of time and hassle.

technovox said:

Yep. I got the same email about a jacket I was looking for from the same guy- colethomas717@gmail.com.
Hope no one gets burned by this guy. Beware...

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He was shown the door the first part of this week. No one should be getting anymore PM from him.

Please continue to report these PMs so the potential scammers can be dealt with.

Absolutely, folks - I cant stress enough how helpful the report function is. If you use that, all bartenders see it as soon as we sign in - it's a much faster way of bringing problems to our attention than anything else.

You may notice in my most recent Classifieds, I have put in "PayPal Normal Transaction" so it's clear there will be a small fee. I'm fine with that, compared to loosing all of it at once.

AeroFan_07 said:

You may notice in my most recent Classifieds, I have put in "PayPal Normal Transaction" so it's clear there will be a small fee. I'm fine with that, compared to loosing all of it at once.

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Just so you know Randy, when you sell an item as "goods and services" the purchaser can make claims that will force a refund, and you will lose it all at once. This is how disgraced, slack jawed "member" Lebowski was able to run multiple scams here.

^^^ exactly this. As a seller, assuming you're being legit and will deliver as promised, you're best bet is PPFF.

The catch 22 is this...

As a buyer, I think the lesson is don't do PPFF... unless the person you're transacting with has some presence, reputation here, etc. That's still no guarantee, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen a cool jacket on here for sale, but it was from someone with very few posts, so I didn't bother. Maybe I missed out on something, oh well. But it's something that has to be earned. I think the far majority of transactions on here go off without a hitch because of that trust. Still no guarantee of course.

The other part of this is those purposefully feeding on someone looking for something specific. I think it's been mentioned here before, but in those cases where you post a WTB and someone out of the blue pings you (again, new member, not that many posts/history). Here you should ask for a photo where you can confirm they have the item in hand. It's the old proof of life. Shot of a newspaper or ask them to take a picture of the jacket and include some random item next to it, etc. And maybe in these cases is where you insist as the buyer that it needs to be an invoiced pay pal transaction.

ton312 said:

Just so you know Randy, when you sell an item as "goods and services" the purchaser can make claims that will force a refund, and you will lose it all at once. This is how disgraced, slack jawed "member" Lebowski was able to run multiple scams here.

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Paypal and eBay both can be problematic. To be fair, I've had good experiences with both in terms of buyer protection. There's no doubt, though, that they both seem also to have often unfairly disadvantaged sellers in order to better protect the buyer. (It's not unlike many of the campaigns for legal changes I've seen come and go over the years all too often relying on a naive assumption that one side must always be the good guys, the other bad. Life has a way of being far more nuanced than that.)

ton312 said:

Just so you know Randy, when you sell an item as "goods and services" the purchaser can make claims that will force a refund, and you will lose it all at once. This is how disgraced, slack jawed "member" Lebowski was able to run multiple scams here.

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I hadn't been following this thread closely so I only just read this now... Some time ago, Lebowski messaged me to inquire about buying one of my Thedi jackets. I wasn't really interested in selling it, but I gave him a price I couldn't say no to, which was of course not one he was willing to pay. So we never did a transaction. Now that I'm reading this I'm glad we didn't come to an agreement. I might have dodged a bullet.

I've done many deals with different forum members over the years, and haven't had any problems, both as a buyer and a seller. Most of us are ok, and I can say I would be proud to consider a few of you genuine friends. Ton, Terry, Monitor, 58panheadfan, sweetfights, Lina, and I'm sure a few others I'm forgetting to name especially deserve credit for the wealth of information they have provided and for their fair dealing, to make this a real community.

Bfd70 said:

Any way to require 100 posts to access the Classifieds?

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please don't do this. many people use this forum solely for the classified section. If someone is motivated enough to scam they'll be motivated to spam. There is not policing this. Use paypal G&S if you're concerned.

Horweendreams said:

please don't do this. many people use this forum solely for the classified section. If someone is motivated enough to scam they'll be motivated to spam. There is not policing this. Use paypal G&S if you're concerned.

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It has already been replied that it is not practical.

Horweendreams said:

There is not policing this. Use paypal G&S if you're concerned.

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PayPal Goods & Services -- protects the buyer from fradulent sellers.
PayPal Friends/Family -- protects the seller from fraudulent buyer protection claims.

Really, it comes down to reputation and integrity. Between established members who have a lot of history, we typically do not have problems.

Newcomers have no reputation, and should be dealt with accordingly. That is, they should be the ones assuming the risk, whether as buyer or seller. Once they've done a few transactions and conducted themselves honorably, more trust can be extended.

However, even long-standing users could (and apparently have) earned a poor reputation (eg, Lebowski). And legitimate disputes and misunderstandings are possible as well.

I don't agree that this is something that cannot be policed. It is not something that can be automated, or fixed by implementing a simple rule, however.

What we can do is create guidelines or bylaws for how we conduct private sales through the site, with recommendations for how to protect your interests whether as a buyer or as a seller. It's fairly easy to draft a document or a pinned post with guidelines and recommendations for how to avoid problems. Maybe I'll take some time and write up something to get the ball rolling...

It's also possible for members to share their experience with the forum when dealing with another member. This information could be collected into its own thread, curated by the admins. Testimonials like, "I bought a jacket from Guppy. It was authentic, as described, and packaged well, and a fair price. No problems. He was friendly, courteous, and professional throughout. Would deal with again," could go a long way to help members assess whether a seller or buyer is trustworthy.

A problem with this approach is adjudicating who to believe when there is a dispute. Typically, a person who is accused of ripping someone off will make counter-claims, and it becomes very difficult to sort out who's telling the truth, unless someone happens to have documented everything and provides evidence that is difficult or impossible to fake. Ebay used to try to arbitrate disputes in such manner, but the burden and cost of doing so lead to them streamlining the whole process, requiring less evidence gathering and letters of appraisal, and more going straight to insurance payouts on claims because it's ultimately cheaper to do that than it is to get to the bottom of things, particularly when it's all but impossible to secure a conviction against a true criminal scammer.

Basically, it's a community's responsibility to police itself, and even then occasionally it could happen that someone gets ripped off or regrets a deal after the fact. But when we act as a community -- looking out for one another, helping each other out, reporting problems and making bad actors known publicly, it helps.