The Mandela Effect

belfastboy · Jan 20, 2022

Tiki Tom said:
My wife has a phenomenal memory. She remembers details that I would never remember. I think I have a certain “memory style”, i.e., if I deem an event to be unimportant or insignificant, I am much less likely to remember it a few months on. On the other hand, my wife is amazed at my recall of historic dates, names, and details.

I did well in school as I had great recall. Rarely had to study as exams back in my day were largely regurgitating facts: names, dates etc. I remembered them from having to write them into our notebooks as I was schooled before Xerox machines and quick copies. It worked though as I never had to schleppe books home after school.

tonyb · Jan 20, 2022

^^^^^
I’ve long maintained that for committing information to memory, paper and pencil (or pen) is a superior technology.

tonyb · Jan 20, 2022

On using my trusty Buck 501 pocketknife a couple hours ago (I’ve had the thing for, like, 27 years), I did a double take to check that the tip wasn’t broken off.

It jogged my memory of a dream I had at some point over the past few nights, in which I broke the tip off my knife.

Hercule · Jan 21, 2022

tonyb said:
^^^^^
I’ve long maintained that for committing information to memory, paper and pencil (or pen) is a superior technology.

It's a lost art. Especially when it comes to literature or other such cultural literacy things. How many of us have much of anything committed to memory? A line or two of this or that perhaps, the usual stuff that's in the public conscience.

tonyb · Jan 21, 2022

Hercule said:
It's a lost art. Especially when it comes to literature or other such cultural literacy things. How many of us have much of anything committed to memory? A line or two of this or that perhaps, the usual stuff that's in the public conscience.

I’m a bit torn. Committing a lengthy text (the Bible, say, or the Koran) to memory is an impressive feat, much in the way that is sculpting in a manner so true to life that you half expect the statue to put on some clothes and drive to work.

Technological advances (the printing press, the camera, etc.) have diminished the utility of such skills. It can be argued that those technologies free up our brains for other things. The counter argument is that the mental (and manual) exercises involved in honing those arguably obsolete skills sharpen thinking overall.

My suspicion is that *something* happens between the hand and the brain with pencil and paper that doesn’t happen quite so effectively with keyboards.

I’ve heard many people say they’ve “read” a book they listened to in audio format. Likewise, people “write” by speaking into their smartphones.

There may come a time when literacy itself may prove, if not obsolete, at least not necessary to functioning in society. And that frightens me, for the ability to read and write is the ability to abstract. That ability spills over into almost all aspects of human existence.

Zombie_61 · Jan 21, 2022

tonyb said:
...My suspicion is that *something* happens between the hand and the brain with pencil and paper that doesn’t happen quite so effectively with keyboards...

Well, there are certainly a very different set of motor skills involved in writing on a piece of paper than there are in simply pressing a button on our electronic device of choice, so the brain is not only more involved but involved for a longer period of time. I can't remember who it was, but I do remember that during my time on this rock someone told me if I want to commit something to memory--an address, phone number, e-mail address, etc.--that the best way to do that is to write it down on a piece of paper at least ten times. It somehow engages the brain in specific ways that help the brain recall that information when it's needed later. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

belfastboy · Jan 21, 2022

Hercule said:
It's a lost art. Especially when it comes to literature or other such cultural literacy things. How many of us have much of anything committed to memory? A line or two of this or that perhaps, the usual stuff that's in the public conscience.

I have the diary of my great aunt she kept on the ocean voyage to Canada at the turn of the 20thC. She used it also as a 'yearbook' kind of thing and had various shipmates write impromptu inscriptions in the book. It was amazing how many lengthy passages from poems, Shakespeare's writings and quotes from literary figures. And she was definitely not in first class. In spite of my family's pretense they came over in Steerage not the upper deck. Pretty sure I could have never done that. At present I can say I have committed my phone numbers, my various passwords to memory and not much else.

Zombie_61 · Jan 21, 2022

^ Many years ago I read an online article about memory and the things that affect it. One of the first things it mentioned was that we do indeed have a limited amount of space in our brains to store memories. That said, it went on to say we have trouble remembering things like Aunt Effigy's phone number now because we chose to remember the "Oscar Mayer Hot Dogs" song when we were kids, i.e. brain space we need now was occupied years ago by what they called "brain sludge". Unfortunately, they also said it's very difficult to dislodge those old memories to make room for newer, more important memories.

Frunobulax · Jan 21, 2022

Zombie_61 said:
Well, there are certainly a very different set of motor skills involved in writing on a piece of paper than there are in simply pressing a button on our electronic device of choice, so the brain is not only more involved but involved for a longer period of time. I can't remember who it was, but I do remember that during my time on this rock someone told me if I want to commit something to memory--an address, phone number, e-mail address, etc.--that the best way to do that is to write it down on a piece of paper at least ten times. It somehow engages the brain in specific ways that help the brain recall that information when it's needed later. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's pretty much been determined that handwriting skills are important for memory retention. More importantly, handwriting skills, particularly learning cursive, is important for childrens' brain development. Learning the hand-to-eye-to cognitive skills helps in the "wiring" of our brain during our formative years. There has been some concern that removing this development activity during a child's formative years has not allowed them to develop certain integrated functions. Some schools and systems are re-introducing cursive into the curriculum because nothing has come up to take its place.

Tiki Tom · Jan 21, 2022

Frunobulax said:
Some schools and systems are re-introducing cursive into the curriculum because nothing has come up to take its place.

I fear this might be a doomed rearguard action. Time marches on, and I suspect that cursive is pretty much a lost cause. I send my kids snail mail hand written multi-page letters a couple of times per year. It’s a habit I got into when they left for college, and I’ve kind of stuck with it. Although I think I may be doing it so that they will one day tell stories about their eccentric father. But even I mostly write in block letters with, yes, an occasional word in cursive thrown in. Anyway, in the not too distant future, youth may look at cursive the same way that we look at the penmanship of Benjamin Franklin or George Washington… with only an expert being able to decipher it. I hope I’m wrong.

tonyb · Jan 21, 2022

^^^^^
I, too, hope you’re wrong.

I was covering local schools about the time personal computers were becoming ubiquitous. School districts were putting forth special “technology” levies, arguing that without the additional funding to put all those computers in schools, our kids would fall behind in the rapidly approaching new century and global economy.

I was skeptical then, and I believe time has shown that skepticism to be well placed. I interviewed the new district superintendent (who didn’t last long in the job, by the way) back then and asked if anyone had considered that pencil and paper might be the superior technology, especially for learning basic literacy and mathematics skills in the early grades. He brushed that off, suggesting that only a Luddite would think that.

And the district sold all those Macs for pennies on the dollar within maybe three or four years. And then bought some more.

Zombie_61 · Jan 21, 2022

Tiki Tom said:
...I send my kids snail mail hand written multi-page letters a couple of times per year. It’s a habit I got into when they left for college, and I’ve kind of stuck with it. Although I think I may be doing it so that they will one day tell stories about their eccentric father. But even I mostly write in block letters with, yes, an occasional word in cursive thrown in...

My cursive was never particularly legible, so I switched to printing long ago and now only use cursive when signing my name. I can still remember how to write cursive, I think, but have to write slowly or it becomes an illegible mess.

Harp · Jan 21, 2022

Frunobulax said:
It's pretty much been determined that handwriting skills are important for memory retention. More importantly, handwriting skills, particularly learning cursive, is important for childrens' brain development. Learning the hand-to-eye-to cognitive skills helps in the "wiring" of our brain during our formative years. There has been some concern that removing this development activity during a child's formative years has not allowed them to develop certain integrated functions. Some schools and systems are re-introducing cursive into the curriculum because nothing has come up to take its place.

Sister Mary Therese, First Grade, St John Fisher Huckleberry Hounds reading group.

Cursive handwriting taught by dear Sister Therese, and later in Sixth Grade, Little Flower
Sister Malachy had us practice cursive daily with ink cartridge pens.

Parishes might change but Latin and cursive were ubiquitous.

I served in Sister Mary Therese's Huckleberry Hounds Group; and the 12th Special Forces Group.
Sister's outfit was tougher to get accepted than the Green Berets.

tonyb · Jan 22, 2022

None of which is to say that computers have no place in the schools. Of course they do. But I’m hoping we’ve gotten past fetishizing the things.

They make research a helluva lot more expedient, which ought leave educators with higher expectations of their students’ work product. But that ain’t first grade stuff. And really, the education received by age 8 or so has a profounder influence on a person’s brain bone than anything he’ll ever learn in grad school.

Harp · Jan 22, 2022

Zombie_61 said:
^ we chose to remember the "Oscar Mayer Hot Dogs" song when we were kids, i.e. brain space we need now was occupie... they also said it's very difficult to dislodge those old memories to make room for newer, more important memories.

Oscar Meyer hotdogs are a staple store pickup, and of course the slogan song sticks like glue
to memory, but the Miltonesque aphorism that 'The mind is its own place; and can make a Heaven
of Hell; or a Hell of Heaven' rings true.

I'm hope like hell they sell hot dogs in heaven.

Frunobulax · Jan 22, 2022

Tiki Tom said:
I fear this might be a doomed rearguard action. Time marches on, and I suspect that cursive is pretty much a lost cause. I send my kids snail mail hand written multi-page letters a couple of times per year. It’s a habit I got into when they left for college, and I’ve kind of stuck with it. Although I think I may be doing it so that they will one day tell stories about their eccentric father. But even I mostly write in block letters with, yes, an occasional word in cursive thrown in. Anyway, in the not too distant future, youth may look at cursive the same way that we look at the penmanship of Benjamin Franklin or George Washington… with only an expert being able to decipher it. I hope I’m wrong.

Oh, I agree. Something else compelling needs to be exploited to replace what learning to write helped in our development.

The Mandela Effect

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