Can a man appreciate vintage and be metro?

ferryengr · Apr 18, 2007

Men? Ladies? What do you think of the metro-sexual affiliation some modern men subscribe to? My interest in vintage and the golden era goes beyond clothes and movies. I find the culture of the era interesting too. Although by the 60's and 70's it was time for many male and female roles and customs to change, I think there might be some things we can re-learn from that era in regards to male identity.

happyfilmluvguy · Apr 18, 2007

I think it can be appreciated, but by who, I can't say. My friends and family are used to phases and changes. haha

pigeon toe · Apr 18, 2007

I personally don't like gender roles as they stand today, or as they did in the past. But that doesn't stop me from dressing in a very feminine, vintage way. On the same note, I feel metro-sexual or effeminate men (depending on how you define metro, they aren't always one in the same) can dress vintage just as much as the next guy.

To me, men in the past, for whom style was much more important than it is for today's men, can appear slightly effeminate to people who aren't into fashion, style or the vintage lifestyle. Maybe not in the way they dress (suits are obviously very masculine!), but in the fact that they put so much care into the way they look. I much prefer a guy caring about his appearance than a dude who couldn't care less about wearing something other than a t-shirt and shorts, no matter what kind of "metro-sexual" vibe it may give off to others.

I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but that's my 2 cents!

ferryengr · Apr 18, 2007

PT, I see there is another thread about women and their comfort with being feminine. I have to say I love a woman who is a girly-girly.

I find your comments about men past and present quite interesting. Personally, I think many guys these days and are almost embarassed to be guys (if you have seen the comedic monologue Defending the Caveman, you will know what I mean). Like I was really genetically wired to do more than focus on one thing at a time or remember important dates??

Luckily for me, I had a role model in my grandfather who was both a very dapper dresser and all man. I mean how many guys this day have lounge chairs out in the garage so the men folks can go out and talk and smoke cigars (like my grandfather's generation often did)?! Certainly a part of the culture of yesteryear. I kind of miss it sometimes.

Baron Kurtz · Apr 18, 2007

I've never quite understood the notion that "this is what a man should do and be". All the metrosexual-types i know are very into sports and drinking/smoking in bars. Many of them lift weights and are quite strong. Almost everyone i know is courteous and kind. Aren't these attributes of "real men"?

But then i don't believe in a "male identity". Or a female one, for that matter. And i certainly don't think there are, or should be, roles within society or the home which are defined by the possession/absence of a penis.

bk

Spitfire · Apr 18, 2007

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap Bravo baron!lol

happyfilmluvguy · Apr 18, 2007

I've seen plenty of "men" act as gentlemen, have other more indepth interests in themselves, and are not all "I'm tough and drink beer and watch football". I don't believe that this cliche of a male is completely correct, though I also know males who are exactly this. I can honestly say that there are many men, though not interested in "vintage" persay, are still well aware of gentlemen values, and use them at their will, and aren't in a suit with Frank Sinatra in their ears.

So men can appreciate "vintage values", but they don't need to dress the part to act the part. It's an instinct like is feminine attraction. I also have seen an increase in men wearing things other than t shirts and jeans, which actually not everyone wears. Dress shirts have become very popular.

pigeon toe · Apr 19, 2007

Very true, Baron!

I like to think that men and women as individuals are too complex for a string of adjectives to adequately describe them. Even if we are talking about men as a group, or women as a group, there's too much variance for any one statement to be completely true.

Even though I don't believe in the validity of gender roles, it's still hard to break the habit of talking or thinking in that mind frame since its been embedded in us since we were children.

A side note:

roles within society or the home which are defined by the possession/absence of a penis.

What you are saying is so true, but it's funny how we are all accustomed to thinking about a penis as being the default genitalia, the norm. I'm in a feminist theory class right now and we were just discussing how Freud's defines women by the fact that they lack a penis. Don't get me wrong, what you are saying is very progressive and not sexist at all, it just goes to show how deeply ingrained this way of thinking (sexuality is either possession of penis or lack, not possession of penis or vagina) is in us all.

Parallel Guy · Apr 19, 2007

You have a point, Pigeon Toe, especially when discussing individuals. But whether nature or nurture there are differences in the genders as groups. To ignore that is to miss one of life's real pleasures, I think. However, most individuals I know can't be stereotyped and there is pleasure in those surprises as well.

I guess I see the Metrosexual thing as nothing really too new. It's just a new word for an old concept.

herringbonekid · Apr 19, 2007

ferryengr said:
Although by the 60's and 70's it was time for many male and female roles and customs to change, I think there might be some things we can re-learn from that era in regards to male identity.

which era ? the 60s and 70s ?

i don't understand what you're asking.

Rooster · Apr 19, 2007

I must be a hick from the sticks.....What the heck is a metro? I like men to be men and women to be women, no grey areas. Life is tough enough already.

Jovan · Apr 19, 2007

I don't believe in "metrosexuality." It's a trendy term describing something that's always been around, really. The term doesn't even make sense, even when I look up the closest definitions to what it describes.

From Dictionary.com:

met·ro
adj. Metropolitan: metro Los Angeles.

sex·u·al
adj.

1. Of, relating to, involving, or characteristic of sex, sexuality, the sexes, or the sex organs and their functions.
2. Implying or symbolizing erotic desires or activity.
3. Of, relating to, or involving the union of male and female gametes.

Yep, definitely confused.

I've never subscribed to the gender role thing either. Christopher Plummer, in an interview, disappointed me a bit with his old hat thinking that there are no "real men" acting anymore, "just boys." He did say that Colin Farrell was a real man, but why? Because he smokes and drinks all the time? And obviously he hasn't seen that movie where Colin Farrell has sex for the first time and cries afterwards. I forget the name of it. I think Plummer is a wonderful actor, but he comes off as being a bit stuck in the past as a person. Reminds me of my grandfather. :-/

Rafter · Apr 19, 2007

Jovan said:
Christopher Plummer, in an interview, disappointed me a bit with his old hat thinking that there are no "real men" acting anymore, "just boys."

I have to agree with Christopher Plummer's assessment.

How can you compare the actors of the past, with today's wimpy brood.
They had a combination of toughness, sophistication, wit, and presence that is no longer seen on the screens of today's multiplex shoeboxes.

Come on, the Leonardo DiCaprio's and the Tom Cruise's are "just boys" and don't hold a candle to the likes of Bogart, Gable, Cagney, Tracy, Peck, Grant, McQueen, Holden, Fonda, Wayne or even Stewart. These "real men" brought a magnetic presence to the screen and made a powerful and enduring mark on film history.

Plummer's opinion is not "old-hat" thinking, it's reality!!

Jovan · Apr 19, 2007

I'm going to get stoned to death, but Bogart's acting annoys the $#!% out of me. I like the other actors, but being a tough guy doesn't make you a "real man." My definition of a "real man" if I must have one, is one that isn't afraid to be vulnerable and show his true feelings.

Sorry, but I think DiCaprio has gotten better with age. His performances in Catch Me if You Can and The Aviator were spot on. Tom Cruise can get quite annoying, however. Ewan McGregor is a strong actor, I think. He's quite versatile.

Hondo · Apr 19, 2007

Rafter said:
I have to agree with Christopher Plummer's assesment.

How can you compare the actors of the past, with today's wimpy brood.
They had a combination of toughness, sophistication, wit, and presence that is no longer seen on the screens of today's multiplex shoeboxes.

Come on, the Leonardo DiCaprio's and the Tom Cruise's are "just boys" and don't hold a candle to the likes of Bogart, Gable, Cagney, Tracy, Peck, Grant, McQueen, Holden, Fonda, Wayne or even Stewart. These "real men" brought a magnetic presence to the screen and made a powerful and enduring mark on film history.

Plummer's opinion is not "old-hat" thinking, it's reality!!

Its a "trendy term" you are what you are and I‚Äôm in agreement here with ya Rafter, couldn‚Äôt have said it better.

ValleyBoy · Apr 19, 2007

All of this depends on what is meant by "metrosexual". If by metrosexual you mean a man who cares about his appearance and is strong enough to stand up and defend himself against other men, yet secure enough to cry in front of woman, than I believe that is the perfect example of the vintage man. But if by "metrosexual" you mean the trend of some of these younger kids who have begun wearing makeup and speaking and moving very effeminately, than I cannot see that as either vintage or vaild. It just seems unbecoming to me.

Slicksuit · Apr 19, 2007

I think it's difficult to come out with a straightforward answer because it's difficult to come to a consensus agreement as to what a metrosexual is. The term came into popular usage in the mid 1990s as a buzzword to describe males who partake in traditionally feminine rituals of personal hygenine and attention to dress.

Jovan, I think the buzzword came about because such males tend to live in urban/metropolitan areas (as opposed to rural); dissecting the roots of the word doesn't necessarily give a good definiton, as it is a recent colloquial term. Webster's dictionary defines at as:
Main Entry: met¬?ro¬?sex¬?u¬?al
Pronunciation: "me-tr&-'sek-sh(&-)w&l, -'sek-sh&l
Function: noun
Etymology: 2metropolitan + -sexual (as in 2heterosexual)
: a usually urban heterosexual male given to enhancing his personal appearance by fastidious grooming, beauty treatments, and fashionable clothes

Can a man appreciate vintage and be metrosexual? In terms of vintage dress and apprearance, yes, as vintage lends itself to fastitious grooming. In values, I'm not so sure, as with metrosexuality there is an element of narcissicism typically present.

Rafter · Apr 19, 2007

Jovan said:
I'm going to get stoned to death, but Bogart's acting annoys the $#!% out of me. I like the other actors, but being a tough guy doesn't make you a "real man." My definition of a "real man" if I must have one, is one that isn't afraid to be vulnerable and show his true feelings.

Guess you've never seen....
Bogart in "Sabrina",
Grant in "Penny Serenade",
Wayne in "A Quiet Man",
Tracy in "Captain's Courageous",
Gable in "Teacher's Pet",
McQueen in "Love With The Proper Stranger",
Peck in "Roman Holiday",
Fonda in "Mister Roberts", and
Holden in "Picnic".

Helen Troy · Apr 19, 2007

Metrosexual isn't new. It's just a new term. What about the dandy, the zootsuiters, or the perfectly manicured and shaved in a salon- types of the 40s?

Metro or whatever. Just follow your inner style, that never gets out of fashion!

Quigley Brown · Apr 19, 2007

Parallel Guy said:
I guess I see the Metrosexual thing as nothing really too new. It's just a new word for an old concept.

Used to be called a 'dandy.'

Can a man appreciate vintage and be metro?

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