Dog Fighting? Good God Almighty.

K.D. Lightner · Jul 21, 2007

This whole topic makes me sick unto death. I wish I could feel that the human race is progressing, i.e. learning and growing, treating each other and other living creatures that grace this planet, with respect and care. For, if we are not evolving towards something greater, then what are we doing?

It is one thing to have to kill animals for food. Like some Native American Indians would have done, apologize to the creature you have to kill in order to survive.

It is another to use animals for "sport." Yes, it has gone on since humans first appeared on the planet, and people have also used and killed each other for "sport."

Remember the photo of the Roman arena a few posts back?

Remember the witch burnings of the middle ages, the impaling of subjects and enemies by rulers and leaders? (I learned that when Vlad the Impaler was imprison, he found mice and impaled them on sticks)

And remember this: when people or animals were impaled, tortured, hanged, mutilated, crucified, forced to fight each other, or executed in any way, the event drew crowds of people. Why?

Is it the blood lust of hunters and gatherers gone horribly awry?

If not, what is it?!

karol

Miss Brill · Jul 21, 2007

Viola said:
Then why don't they just play poker? Cards are cheaper to buy and require less care. Somebody's getting something out of the blood.

-Viola

I think it is ignorant & weak people needing dogs to make them feel like men. To them, having the biggest & baddest dog is like having a few inches added to their penis or a powerful job. Men need to feel masculine & some have nothing going for them. Even Vick has nothing going for him--by the time he is 40 he'll be a has-been because he makes his living with his body & not his brain, that has got to make them feel insecure.

The Captain · Jul 21, 2007

Putting some "teeth" in the law

The President Signs Landmark Animal Fighting Legislation

May 3, 2007

Today, President Bush signed into law a bill that will help law enforcement rid the United States of dogfighting, cockfighting, and other forms of animal fighting.

Dogfighting and cockfighting crimes are rampant in the United States, with individuals arrested every week in scores of locations under state laws. The vast underground networks generate pervasive animal cruelty, drug trafficking, illegal gambling, public corruption and even violence and murder. The Animal Fighting Prohibition Enforcement Act, which passed Congress with large bi-partisan support, will give law enforcement a stronger tool to crack down on this illegal activity.

The law takes effect immediately. It provides felony penalties for interstate commerce, import and export related to animal fighting activities, including commerce in cockfighting weapons. It will make it much harder for criminals who engage in dogfighting and cockfighting to continue their operations. Each violation of the federal law may bring up to three years in jail and up to a $250,000 fine for perpetrators.

Cockfighting is outlawed in every state except Louisiana, although there is mounting pressure in that state to ban the practice. Many states still have misdemeanor penalties for cockfighting. The federal law slaps felony penalties on interstate cockfighting trafficking, and this should provide an enormous deterrent for the tens of thousands of people involved in this criminal industry.

The law will have a devastating impact on major breeders of fighting animals, who depend on customers from all over the United States and abroad. Dog kennels rely on transporting their fighting dogs across state lines and across the world to customers. The new law should substantially curb the transport of fighting animals across state and U.S. borders. Some major breeders of fighting roosters are cutting back on production.

The Animal Fighting Prohibition Enforcement Act will help end the export of fighting animals to other countries. Selling roosters to customers in the Philippines and other nations can be lucrative for American cockfighters. The new law puts increased pressure on the airlines to stop shipping roosters to cockfighting hot spots.

The new law had been introduced by Rep. Elton Gallegly (R-Calif.), Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.), and Rep. Roscoe Bartlett (R-Md.) in the House, and by Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.), Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.), Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), and Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) in the Senate. It had also been endorsed by more than 500 groups, including all major humane organizations, the American Veterinary Medical Association, the National Chicken Council, the National Sheriffs' Association, and more than 400 local law enforcement agencies covering all 50 states.

Baron Kurtz · Jul 21, 2007

I hadn't heard about that. Good news, Captain! :eusa_clap

bk

BegintheBeguine · Jul 21, 2007

I remember reading that

Thanks, The Captain.
Some of my neighbors are or were involved in dog fighting. Several years ago, when my house telephone picked up one's cellular telephone conversation, I called the police. Based on my tip they were able to survey his activities and shut him down. His child was a friend of mine, who loved to pet my dogs. I live in the inner city and don't like to air my 4 pugs in the front yard, lest one of the men who exercise their pit bull whilst being pulled along on a bicycle sees them and decides to teach me a lesson by stealing one to use as blood bait. Pit bulls can be sweet creatures. The men, and I have never heard of a woman doing this, who torture them to fight are not sweet.
None of the compulsive gamblers I know has ever bet on a dog fight. Raindrops, yes, but not dog fights.

Foofoogal · Jul 22, 2007

http://www.hcnonline.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1574&dept_id=532215&newsid=17531738&PAG=461&rfi=9

The man went to buy the dog. Never made it out alive.

Barry · Jul 24, 2007

Wow.

I just learned that Vick and I attended the same elementary school. I was there a few years before he enrolled though.

Whew! Do I have some stories about that place. :rage:

Barry

Natty Bumpo · Jul 24, 2007

Rooster,

Innocent until proven guilty is for the courtroom.

Michael Vick...you can take the punk out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the punk.

Miss_Bella_Hell · Jul 24, 2007

It's really hard for me not to get preachy in this thread. I hope lots of you are vegetarians. And aren't wearing fur felt.

Rooster · Jul 24, 2007

Miss_Bella_Hell said:
It's really hard for me not to get preachy in this thread. I hope lots of you are vegetarians. And aren't wearing fur felt.

lol You tell 'em girl!
When I get the time I'll write a disertation on Gamecock behavior. Untill then you all can continue on in your bunny hugging bliss.

Ha! city folks....

lol

Diamondback · Jul 24, 2007

All in your ethics--to me, an "ethical kill" means one finished as swiftly, cleanly, and humanely as possible in the situation, and only as much killing as necessary to get the job done, no more.

akaBruno · Jul 24, 2007

Rooster said:
lol You tell 'em girl!
When I get the time I'll write a disertation on Gamecock behavior. Untill then you all can continue on in your bunny hugging bliss.
Ha! city folks.... lol

I hear ya Rooster. The cockfighting thing doesn't bother me but dogfighting does. Why is that? Is it because I don't eat dog or because I love dogs so much?

Bruno

Miss_Bella_Hell · Jul 24, 2007

Diamondback said:
All in your ethics--to me, an "ethical kill" means one finished as swiftly, cleanly, and humanely as possible in the situation, and only as much killing as necessary to get the job done, no more.

Rare, especially if you buy the cheap stuff.

Diamondback · Jul 24, 2007

Life's too short for the cheap meats. I only use sirloin for my own burgers when I'm buying... (sigh, too bad I'm stuck with relatives who appreciate neither style nor quality...

)

Rooster · Jul 24, 2007

akaBruno said:
I hear ya Rooster. The cockfighting thing doesn't bother me but dogfighting does. Why is that? Is it because I don't eat dog or because I love dogs so much?

Bruno

The difference is we consider dogs as pets and chickens are........well.....chickens.lol
My dog is an alpha dog, He's never been anywhere near another dog that he hasn't fought with. I of course immediatly break it up and always avoid having him where there may be other dogs. My roosters on the other hand are always penned seperatly as they will kill each other if given the chance. If 1 or 2 get out and start a scuffle I'll generally watch untill somebody gets hurt then split them up. It's like watching a boxxing match, they skills they use are incredible. God's gift of the fight in these creatures is amazing. There is nothing thes cocks like better than a good fight to the death. I had a big Thai shamo kick his way out of 2"X4" welded wire to kill another cock bird that was outside his cage. He is a problem child. I had him out with 30 or more hens for a very short time and he would kill any light colored hen. One blow to the head and that was it. I lost two before I figured out what was going on.
Chickens kill for breeding rights in the jungle. Only the strongest and quickest gets to breed the flock of hens. It's natures way. They fight to the death or untill the looser flies off. As a coincidence the very same thing happens in todays cockpits. Two birds are set in front of each other and the battle is on. Either one of them can fly out of the pit at anytime, thus ending the fight. the pit walls are only about 2' tall. Steel is put on the birds spurs to make the fight fair. Older cocks have londer sharper spurs and younger cocks have small blunt spurs which would hardly make a fair fight.
There are several types of steel that are tied on to the spurs. Gaffs which look like curved needles on a socket and are an 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" long. These are probably most common in the USA and are most commonly used by caucasians. These are used for birds that generally are body punchers. Then there are slashers, which look like knives , sometimes they are used only on one leg. These are used on high flying fast shuffleing birds . The fights are over real quick, less than a couple minutes. This is mainly a mexican and philipino thing. Then we come to the postiza, which is a 1" spike made from horn, plastic, or aluminium.The birds that use these are head hunters. Postizas are popular in florida and all the carribean islands. Purley a hispanic thing. Then we come to bare heal fights. This is a Hmong cultural event they brought form their home conuntries of Vietnam , CAmbodia and Laos. The birds are large and powerfull. The matching of the birds for fights cann take hours of argueing and kaos. Nothing is put on the spurs and they are usually blunted. The fight usually goes 3 or 4 18 minute rounds with a 30 minute break in between rounds. These birds reall take a beating with out steel or sharp spurs. If you have a Hmong community, I garauntee you they are fighting chickens.

I hope this little thumbnail view has cleared up any misinformation about cock fighting. Any questions I'd be glad to answer. The point I was trying to emphasize is the steel speeds up the fight and makes it fair for both birds. With out the steel these fights would truely be a blood sport and would stretch out for hours with niether bird likely to survive, not even the winner. With steel the winner usually live to fight another day, as well as the looser in probably 25% of the fights. Naked heels (natural spurs) are viscious weapons, as God intended them to be. they are large in diameter, very sharp and covered in bacteria. Wounds from a spur are quite large, deep and bleed like crazy. They also get infected and take along time to heal, if ever. Due to the bacteria.

RIOT · Jul 24, 2007

It always starts with "My _____ can beat your ______!"

akaBruno · Jul 25, 2007

Rooster said:
The difference is we consider dogs as pets and chickens are........well.....chickens.lol
My dog is an alpha dog, He's never been anywhere near another dog that he hasn't fought with. I of course immediatly break it up and always avoid having him where there may be other dogs. My roosters on the other hand are always penned seperatly as they will kill each other if given the chance. If 1 or 2 get out and start a scuffle I'll generally watch untill somebody gets hurt then split them up. It's like watching a boxxing match, they skills they use are incredible. God's gift of the fight in these creatures is amazing. There is nothing thes cocks like better than a good fight to the death. I had a big Thai shamo kick his way out of 2"X4" welded wire to kill another cock bird that was outside his cage. He is a problem child. I had him out with 30 or more hens for a very short time and he would kill any light colored hen. One blow to the head and that was it. I lost two before I figured out what was going on.
Chickens kill for breeding rights in the jungle. Only the strongest and quickest gets to breed the flock of hens. It's natures way. They fight to the death or untill the looser flies off. As a coincidence the very same thing happens in todays cockpits. Two birds are set in front of each other and the battle is on. Either one of them can fly out of the pit at anytime, thus ending the fight. the pit walls are only about 2' tall. Steel is put on the birds spurs to make the fight fair. Older cocks have londer sharper spurs and younger cocks have small blunt spurs which would hardly make a fair fight.
There are several types of steel that are tied on to the spurs. Gaffs which look like curved needles on a socket and are an 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" long. These are probably most common in the USA and are most commonly used by caucasians. These are used for birds that generally are body punchers. Then there are slashers, which look like knives , sometimes they are used only on one leg. These are used on high flying fast shuffleing birds . The fights are over real quick, less than a couple minutes. This is mainly a mexican and philipino thing. Then we come to the postiza, which is a 1" spike made from horn, plastic, or aluminium.The birds that use these are head hunters. Postizas are popular in florida and all the carribean islands. Purley a hispanic thing. Then we come to bare heal fights. This is a Hmong cultural event they brought form their home conuntries of Vietnam , CAmbodia and Laos. The birds are large and powerfull. The matching of the birds for fights cann take hours of argueing and kaos. Nothing is put on the spurs and they are usually blunted. The fight usually goes 3 or 4 18 minute rounds with a 30 minute break in between rounds. These birds reall take a beating with out steel or sharp spurs. If you have a Hmong community, I garauntee you they are fighting chickens.
I hope this little thumbnail view has cleared up any misinformation about cock fighting. Any questions I'd be glad to answer. The point I was trying to emphasize is the steel speeds up the fight and makes it fair for both birds. With out the steel these fights would truely be a blood sport and would stretch out for hours with niether bird likely to survive, not even the winner. With steel the winner usually live to fight another day, as well as the looser in probably 25% of the fights. Naked heels (natural spurs) are viscious weapons, as God intended them to be. they are large in diameter, very sharp and covered in bacteria. Wounds from a spur are quite large, deep and bleed like crazy. They also get infected and take along time to heal, if ever. Due to the bacteria.

You know from where you speak... on the subject. And I know little about it. I grew up thinking it was cool. Cockfightin doesn't bother me. It's just a chicken.

Why is it different when people say, "It's just a dog?"

Rooster · Jul 25, 2007

Why is it different when people say, "It's just a dog?"

I guess because 95% of people in the USA and other civilized nations consider dogs as pets. Our dogs have always been a very important part of our family, and I've always been quite attatched to them. When the dog gets sick I take him to the vet and may spend hundreds of dollars on him. When a chicken gets sick I pull his head off.....[huh]

akaBruno · Jul 25, 2007

Rooster said:
I guess because 95% of people in the USA and other civilized nations consider dogs as pets. Our dogs have always been a very important part of our family, and I've always been quite attatched to them. When the dog gets sick I take him to the vet and may spend hundreds of dollars on him. When a chicken gets sick I pull his head off.....[huh]

I hear ya.

Bruno

Paisley · Jul 26, 2007

A Word from Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer

This is what dog trainer Cesar Milan has to say about dog fighting and abuse:

The first time I witnessed animal abuse was when I moved to Mazatlan as a child. It tore me up inside to see people throwing rocks at dogs and swearing at them. Later, as an adult, I witnessed first hand the effects of abuse on dogs. I have seen animals that have been hit and kicked, neglected puppies tied to trees in backyards for days and dogs denied food and water.

One memorable case is Popeye. Popeye lost an eye in an illegal dog fight. After this, his owners abandoned him. With his new vision impairment, Popeye felt vulnerable, grew suspicious and became very aggressive toward other dogs in an attempt to intimidate them.

Rosemary was also used in illegal dog fights. When she lost a particularly important fight, her owners poured gasoline over her and set her on fire. A rescue organization stepped in and saved her life, but the horrific experience turned her into a dangerously human-aggressive dog.

Luckily, I was able to rehabilitate both Popeye and Rosemary and provide them with the proper leadership they needed to be fulfilled and feel safe. However, not all dogs are this fortunate. Out of fear, abused dogs may attack, and even kill, humans. Society often sentences these dogs to death, even though it was because of humans they became aggressive. (emphasis added)

Dog Fighting? Good God Almighty.

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