Ladies and Gents, A dating issue/question

MsGlamour said:

My current love (we've been together 4 years) is not.... well let's say he's not very gentlemanly (if that's even a word).
I guess in retrospect he never really was. Maybe it's just me that's changed. But I know that I definitely want someone who treats me like a darn lady! I don't receive compliments of any sort really (and I like to think I'm very attractive) and he gets fussy when I ask to him to do little "manly" things like take out the trash or kill a spider.

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On the one hand, if his worst faults are stinginess with compliments and not wanting to get his hands dirty, and he's otherwise a good person and treats you with love and respect, I don't think it's worth breaking up over. Make sure that you're showing appreciation for him. And make sure that you command (not demand) respect.

On the other hand, four years is a long time to go steady. IMHO, unless you're very young, it's time to get married or split up.

Paisley said:

On the other hand, four years is a long time to go steady. IMHO, unless you're very young, it's time to get married or split up.

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I HEARTILY DISAGREE. Not everyone agrees with marriage or wants to get married, and for many people, marriage is not the ultimate goal of a relationship, nor should it be. Marriage is not necessary for the validation of a long term relationship, and there are a lot of viable and valid options that lie between "married" and "split up" - at any age.

Since this isn't a thread about marriage, I'll keep my comment brief. Not getting married is fine--after all, I'm not married. But if a woman wants to have kids, is religious, or is financially or emotionally dependent on her mate, she's probably better off with a legal commitment.

Paisley said:

On the other hand, four years is a long time to go steady. IMHO, unless you're very young, it's time to get married or split up.

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Paisley said:

Since this isn't a thread about marriage, I'll keep my comment brief. Not getting married is fine--after all, I'm not married. But if a woman wants to have kids, is religious, or is financially or emotionally dependent on her mate, she's probably better off with a legal commitment.

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These are two very different sentiments. I agree with the latter but not the former. Overall I think Kitty's advice on the first page is the best way to go.

I suppose there is somethign to be said for, if not marriage, at least asking yourself if this is going to be a long term serious committment, or move on.

As far as your complaints, I would need to know more to really know. But if you are jsut feeling like you shold be getting compliments or are feeling you need them as you feel insecure, try to get past them. Look for the other ways he shows his love and apreciation. I have a problem with the idea that men should fit some form of "gentleman." A man should treat you the way you are comfortable with. Of course he should always treat you with respect, coutesy, and love. But that is different for different people. If you feel good enough about yourself, you do not need any displays of his love, compliments or anything else.

However, if that is just a symptom of the fact that he isn't that into you, or is selfish and stingy with his love, then get out.

ALso, while it sounds good in theory, people will never really be so free of societal and personal isues that they can actually be 100 % free of their need for recognition and validation, so if you are truly feeling upset about it and can't get pat it, it is probably beer to have a man that is more expressive. But don't blame him completely, It is just different ways of being.

Lastly, if you are feeling like he should fit some societal standard of what it is to be aman, take out the gabage and spiders, decide where to go out to eat, think about that too.

If you truly like a more alpha, "real man" man, and you don't think you can easily get past that, then move on. IF you can see them as just societal nad not your personal needs, then cut him some slack. But, beyond that, I do honestly think that while a man does not need to fit this societal standard, there is a problem with too many men not being able to step into their manhood and become whiny, weak willed children.

The idea I will throw out at you is that people tend to be more or less in their male and female energy. A guy who is more in his female energy a lot, will be expressive, creative, in the moment etc. Probably sensitive and alot of fun. But he may not be as good at taking the lead and making decisions etc.

If a woman doesn't mind, great. In fact, if she is more in her male energy it can work quite well, unless one or both starts thinking that there is something wrong with that.

Other people tend to be more fluid, and can move in and out of their energies easily. Then it is just the case that love and intimacy, if you know what I mean, will work if one partner readily falls into one energy and the other falls into the other.

Kind of esoteric I know, but makes more and more sense to me all the time.

SO, if you are looking for a man very much in his male energy, then you don't seem to be getting it. But when you find it, don't expect as much sensitivity. SOunds like you aren't getting much of either though.

I tend to be pretty neutral, which some women love and some women don't.

Good luck.

Wow, thank you so much for all of your responses! There is some really good advice in all of them, and I greatly appreciate it. Hopefully someone else may be able to gather some good advice from this as well.

Ok, so I really don't even know where to begin.
After reading over my initial post, I realize that such things as getting compliments and killing spiders sounded so petty. These were just generic examples of a bigger issue.

Yes, we've been together for four years. No we're not married and we don't even live together. He's not ready which is something that I'm fine with at this point. I'm not into the idea of having children to begin with so this is fine with me. However, I am a woman and this may be subject to change as time goes on if I do not feel things are progressing forward as they should, which is dependent on how he and I both feel at that time. Still though, no kids... Which he is already aware of so no biggie. I am 25 and I recently just graduated with my bachelor's degree (finally!) and I know for a fact that marriage or anything of the sort wasn't even a question until after I had finished school.

There is more to this issue than what I've presented you all with. There was me being unfaithful to him with a co-worker. I know, horrible thing to do. It was over two years ago. I felt horrible then, not so much now because I'm pretty sure we've both moved past it. Even before the cheating though, his behavior was pretty much the same as it is now. Possible reason for me cheating, not to take the blame off myself whatsoever because I was wrong.

I've tried walking away from this relationship numerous times when I've felt that I'm not being valued or I'm not receiving the things I need. Which, he's even admitted are not unreasonable. He works waaaaay to much, he never ever ( I mean never) cleans, he is for the most part aloof when it comes to intimacy. At one point he even admitted that, "all of his needs were met" in the relationship, so he couldn't understand what I was so upset about.:eusa_doh: Just a whole slew of things that we've had numerous conversations about. It always resulting in me trying to walk away from it all and him begging me to come back saying that he knows that I am the one and he can't see his future with anyone else.

We recently just had a discussion about the whole thing. We know that we may have problems while we're together, but we'd be even more miserable apart.


We do love each other, very much I believe. I truly believe that we want the best for each other whether that's together or apart. I don't want to paint him as a horrible guy. He's not at all. He's got a good heart, and I admire the fact that he's very determined and motivated. It's just that sometimes, I don't know if I could handle these issues for the rest of my life.

I suppose the best thing I can say, and I am by no means an expert, is you need to decide for you what the pros and cons are of the relationship, then go from there and see if maybe couple's counselling might be the way to go, so you can both learn to communicate or if going it alone is better for you.

Thing is, no one can say for certain what you should or should not do until they walk in your shoes. I couldn't live in a relationship where my life was constantly thrown in chaos (he's diagnosed with boderline personality disorder) and not get help. After a while, it wasn't worth all the problems (him not cleaning, losing jobs, the constant severe mood swings) for ME. Some people can deal with it and go on. What I would do may not be what someone else would do.

No one person is totally good or bad in a relationship, and it's really hard to get into details about it to people you love and trust, much less a forum. you have to know yourself first, then see if the relationship is truly what you want. Sadly, sometimes love is not enough.

(And I apologize for hijaking the thread.)

Ms. Glamour, as I read it, you sound miserable and would like to break things off, but it's hard. If that is the case, here's my suggestion: when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. There's never going to be a time when it will be easy to end the relationship. If you're going to end it, just end it and cut off all ties. Get all your stuff from his place, give him back his stuff, repay anything you might owe him, write off anything he owes you, then don't call, write, text or e-mail. Throw yourself into work, friendships, and hobbies. Eat right and exercise. Give the breakup time to work.

Sorry if I sound like your mother, but I've been through exactly what you're talking about. I extended a relationship almost two years after I first ended it, and I really regretted it.

BUT, there came a day when I was happy I ended it. I was at a dance in 2002 and having the time of my life. Dancing was making me feel attractive again--and I never would have gotten my ex-boyfriend to go dancing. I fell in love again (with someone who wasn't available--nevertheless, I don't regret that).

So, good luck to you. Keep us posted.

Elaina: I didn't feel that you hijacked at all. You're experiences can empower someone else to make good decisions for themselves. And I find strength from other women who exhibit the will and drive to do what's right for them. I respect the fact that you were willing to share something that may be difficult to talk about with absolute strangers.

Paisley: That's exactly what brought up all these feelings again for me. About two weeks ago, I went out with a good friend of mine and a bunch of male co-workers. There was another old friend there who I know is attracted to me. Nothing happened and I didn't cheat, but being out with them made me feel attractive again. Something I hadn't felt with my boyfriend in a while. I had an amazing time and I think it kinda jolted back into reality.

But you all are right, it's absolutely up to me at this point. Some days I just want to walk away, and other days I can't even imagine it.

I don't want to get too far away from my point, which I think I already did in a way. Women, no matter how independent they may be, want to be treated like lady. That doesn't mean that we can't kill our own spiders, that just means we wanted to be treated with respect and compassion. I want a man to open doors for me,pay me compliments, etc (again generic examples). I think everyone wants to feel that they are valued, and these may just be some ways women feel valued in a relationship. However, sometimes I think some men may lose sight of that now that we can change our own tires, be the breadwinner, etc. I'll admit that it takes a strong man to be with me. I have opinions and a strong drive to achieve and be successful. But at the same time, I've encountered men who are intimidated by that (it may also be my foul mouth but that's a whole other story).

I just wonder if some men expect us to be soft just because we are women, and then feel that if we're too strong, that we don't need the same emotional and physical aspects as other women who may not exhibit the same qualities.

MsGlamour said:

I think everyone wants to feel that they are valued, and these may just be some ways women feel valued in a relationship. However, sometimes I think some men may lose sight of that now that we can change our own tires, be the breadwinner, etc.

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It's not just men! It's very easy to start taking someone for granted once you're in a relationship - and women are just as guilty of it as men are.

KittyT said:

It's not just men! It's very easy to start taking someone for granted once you're in a relationship - and women are just as guilty of it as men are.

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I completely agree. Just look at shows like Jerry Springer. There are some crazy women out there!

MsGlamour said:

I completely agree. Just look at shows like Jerry Springer. There are some crazy women out there!

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I do it with my own boyfriend. Luckily, he is kind enough to point it out so I can check my behavior before he finds it hurtful. He does it to me too. It's what happens, but you have to be able to communicate it with your partner before it turns into hard feelings.

Ms. Glamour, I'm curious: what was your first date with your boyfriend (if you don't mind my asking)?

Paisley said:

Ms. Glamour, I'm curious: what was your first date with your boyfriend (if you don't mind my asking)?

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Ok, we did not meet in a conventional way (online dating site).
Our actual first date, he took me out to breakfast and we went back to his place and watched some movies. Not very fancy, but we had a good time nonetheless.

I think we have all had some bad times with other people. I was ina relationship for 4 years and it was not good. I was a matter of convince for him. I could not even call myself his girlfriend. If I did he would disappear for days. All I wanted was a simple call everyday. I remember when I had to install an air conditioner myself because I was apparently asking to much for him to make a rare appearance and help me lift it into the window. Whatever I was thinking I am glad that I was at least open enough to find another person. It was only at that point did my bf decide that he loved me and I was worth his time. In any case I feel that all the bad relationships are a build up to the one good one. I know that I appreciate my finace now more then ever becasue I can remember how things were in my past.

First Date

MsGlamour said:

Not very fancy, but we had a good time nonetheless.

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I had a feeling!

Paisley said:

Ms. Glamour, as I read it, you sound miserable and would like to break things off, but it's hard. If that is the case, here's my suggestion: when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. There's never going to be a time when it will be easy to end the relationship. If you're going to end it, just end it and cut off all ties. Get all your stuff from his place, give him back his stuff, repay anything you might owe him, write off anything he owes you, then don't call, write, text or e-mail. Throw yourself into work, friendships, and hobbies. Eat right and exercise. Give the breakup time to work.

Sorry if I sound like your mother, but I've been through exactly what you're talking about. I extended a relationship almost two years after I first ended it, and I really regretted it.

BUT, there came a day when I was happy I ended it. I was at a dance in 2002 and having the time of my life. Dancing was making me feel attractive again--and I never would have gotten my ex-boyfriend to go dancing. I fell in love again (with someone who wasn't available--nevertheless, I don't regret that).

So, good luck to you. Keep us posted.

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You are really right. If you know, there is never going to be a good time to do it and it will never get easier. Unless you get so miserable that it is a little easier.

I have only dated one women who eally was disrespectful and mean spirited. I finally bit the bullet. She begged me not to, and I told her she needed to find someone she liked more.

But even with her it was hard, because I was a nice guy and didn't want to hurt anyone. But here is the thing. You aren't doing themselves any favors and certainly not yourself. Since you are not one to be too critical, let's just seay you two are not compatible. So, free him up to find someone he is more so with. Consider it doing him a favor. He may be grateful some day.

And do yourself a favor.

You did remind me of a girlfriend I had. I was too busy for her, but I felt she did not respect my committments to my career and the fact that she did not drive and I alwasy had to come to her. She also was a nine to fiver with nothing else beyond that except social. Not me.

So, while she tried to blame me and say it was a defect on my part, we broke up mutually and amicably, and I am now more on the hunt for a woman with a fuller schedule who will respect mine.

Anyway, point is, if you two are not compatible, find someone who is and free them up to do the same.

Paisley said:

I had a feeling!

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Let me just clarify though, we are very low-key people. We do go fancy though for birthdays and things of that nature. But we're both highly underpaid for our chosen fields. We do the best we can for the most part. We do rarely ever go out though. A lot of weekend nights spent in the house watching tv and ordering takeout.

MsGlamour said:

Elaina: I didn't feel that you hijacked at all. You're experiences can empower someone else to make good decisions for themselves. And I find strength from other women who exhibit the will and drive to do what's right for them. I respect the fact that you were willing to share something that may be difficult to talk about with absolute strangers.

Paisley: That's exactly what brought up all these feelings again for me. About two weeks ago, I went out with a good friend of mine and a bunch of male co-workers. There was another old friend there who I know is attracted to me. Nothing happened and I didn't cheat, but being out with them made me feel attractive again. Something I hadn't felt with my boyfriend in a while. I had an amazing time and I think it kinda jolted back into reality.

But you all are right, it's absolutely up to me at this point. Some days I just want to walk away, and other days I can't even imagine it.

I don't want to get too far away from my point, which I think I already did in a way. Women, no matter how independent they may be, want to be treated like lady. That doesn't mean that we can't kill our own spiders, that just means we wanted to be treated with respect and compassion. I want a man to open doors for me,pay me compliments, etc (again generic examples). I think everyone wants to feel that they are valued, and these may just be some ways women feel valued in a relationship. However, sometimes I think some men may lose sight of that now that we can change our own tires, be the breadwinner, etc. I'll admit that it takes a strong man to be with me. I have opinions and a strong drive to achieve and be successful. But at the same time, I've encountered men who are intimidated by that (it may also be my foul mouth but that's a whole other story).

I just wonder if some men expect us to be soft just because we are women, and then feel that if we're too strong, that we don't need the same emotional and physical aspects as other women who may not exhibit the same qualities.

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Well, you just encapsulated how it is to be a man these days. Things have really changed and women, having changed, are more in tune with it. Men, being just observers, are still trying to figure out how women want to be treated and what their relationship will be.

Women don't make it easy sometimes. Many conflicting messages etc. Not their fault. Just growing pains.

However, don't confuse the excitement of flirting with a new guy with overall reality. Your man can make you feel special in a diffeent way. But he can't compete with the excitement of flirting with a stranger.

Also, don't assume just because he doesn't show his affection in the way you want, that he is not showing it or does not feel it. If you are just too caught up in needing to feel it in a certain way. (holding the door open etc...) and you can't get past it, fine. Just let him go and find someone more traditional. But if you think you can, try to see how he shows his love. If you just don'ty see it, then either he doesn't, isn't showing it, or you just can't come to see it. If after a good faith effort, that happens, then you will never be happy.

But I think everyone should get over the ideas of treating someone like a lady. We should all be treated with respect. The rest is just custom and habit.

reetpleat said:

You are really right. If you know, there is never going to be a good time to do it and it will never get easier. Unless you get so miserable that it is a little easier.

I have only dated one women who eally was disrespectful and mean spirited. I finally bit the bullet. She begged me not to, and I told her she needed to find someone she liked more.

But even with her it was hard, because I was a nice guy and didn't want to hurt anyone. But here is the thing. You aren't doing themselves any favors and certainly not yourself. Since you are not one to be too critical, let's just seay you two are not compatible. So, free him up to find someone he is more so with. Consider it doing him a favor. He may be grateful some day.

And do yourself a favor.

You did remind me of a girlfriend I had. I was too busy for her, but I felt she did not respect my committments to my career and the fact that she did not drive and I alwasy had to come to her. She also was a nine to fiver with nothing else beyond that except social. Not me.

So, while she tried to blame me and say it was a defect on my part, we broke up mutually and amicably, and I am now more on the hunt for a woman with a fuller schedule who will respect mine.

Anyway, point is, if you two are not compatible, find someone who is and free them up to do the same.

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I believe that is a great point. If you really do truly love someone, that love is unconditional, even if it means letting that person go. I'm a firm believer though that you never really stop loving someone, even if you're apart.

My first relationship was a long and painful one. I loved that man more than he ever knew and he didn't really care. I just learned that past relationships are like injuries. They heal and they stop hurting, but they always leave a scar. And that scar is there to remind you of the strength you posses to heal. It just takes time. I recently gave this same explanation to a friend who was going through a painful break up, and this was like the "lightbulb" moment for her.

I definitely give better advice to others than I do myself. However, if it means I have to go through it to help someone else out, than that means there's something positive is coming out of the experience.