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RM WILLIAMS
That's my hide cream of choice on the Irvin and vintage A-2.
That's my hide cream of choice on the Irvin and vintage A-2.
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IRVIN NUTS?...the ULTIMATE thread for those who love 'em!
- Thread starter PADDY
- Start date
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Hawk_Eye
One of the Regulars
- Messages
- 240
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario
Hello all, I've been lurking around this thread for quite awhile so I thought I'd make a contribution. Heres a complete set of DOT arm and main zips. 2 months ago however, they were all the same zipper. The main zip with the unmarked slider box used to be approx. 57 inches long. I cut it down to around 21 or 22 inches. At this time I also had several long, non-separating dots on blue tape that were in horrid condition. I took the hardware from these, utilized the extra tape and track from the 57 incher and voila, I had a set of identical looking DOTs. I then spent the next several days with some scotchbrite removing a very heavy and hard buildup on the teeth, and the pullers themselves. and heres the end result. The pullers are only marked the what you see, theres no other markings on the opposite side, just flat brass.
And heres a shot of yours truly in his WPG Irvin.
And heres a shot of yours truly in his WPG Irvin.
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,500
- Location
- Midlands, UK
First - well done. I always admire enterprise and restoration of original items and you have done a grand job here. The zips themselves are interesting. The sliders are very different to (and look much stronger than) the WW2 cast Dot double trunnion pullers. The same basic zip was used on a variety of military and civilian items in WW2 and postwar. I would guess that yours are postwar, although the tabs are indistinguishable from some of the wartime ones. I have seen single Dot trunnion zips on 58 pattern sleeping bags, 59 pattern Smocks Den(n)ison and even 60 pattern combat smocks. I understand that they were also used on postwar British (and possibly Canadian etc) tank suits and flying suits. Judging by the light tape colour (did you extract the dye?) and the lack of MOD markings I would judge these to be civilian.
I'd love a set of the sliders - I have half a dozen broken (they are very weak) wartime double trunnion zips that I could repair with them.
< Added later> A minor point - on an 'Irvin' the rivets on the slider bucket go through the leather strip that covers the zip tape, as well as the zip tape itself. They are also usually domed bifurcated copper rivets. Like these on a Wareings...note the Lightning sleeve zips.
I hope this helps.
Alan
I'd love a set of the sliders - I have half a dozen broken (they are very weak) wartime double trunnion zips that I could repair with them.
< Added later> A minor point - on an 'Irvin' the rivets on the slider bucket go through the leather strip that covers the zip tape, as well as the zip tape itself. They are also usually domed bifurcated copper rivets. Like these on a Wareings...note the Lightning sleeve zips.
I hope this helps.
Alan
Baron Kurtz
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 12,784
aswatland said:
Just to note that DGL is also the abbreviation of the General Directorate of Civil Aviation, a Dutch ministry. Irvins for Dutch air force consumption? No doubt way off beam, but more speculation into the mix is never bad.
bk
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,500
- Location
- Midlands, UK
Baron Kurtz said:
Baron,
Ingenious thinking...
Here's a photo of the label on the jacket of my DGL suit (the label on the trousers is broadly similar). Note the contract number.
Alan
Baron Kurtz
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 12,784
Does the contract number hold wisdom? Sorry, i'm not up on the deciphering of contract numbers. Is that 238 referring to 1938?
bk
bk
aswatland
My Mail is Forwarded Here
- Messages
- 3,338
- Location
- Kent, England
Alan, The is the first label I have seen with DGL marked on it. I knew about the contract number from you last year. The number does not really conform to any other patterns used on Irvin contract labels. What date do you think the Irvin is? I have seen similar labels which date to 1940-1.
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
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- 1,500
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- Midlands, UK
Baron Kurtz said:
Ah, young man, the sage would say that a number holds data - only the mind of the reader can hold wisdom. Wisdom is the power to apply knowledge based on experience.
This contract number is not like other RAF jacket contract numbers I have seen in its structure and doesn't seem to fit in with any of the other series. We have the data, we have the information, we have the knowledge, but at the moment we lack the wisdom to make sense of it. A visit to Kew would possibly remedy this...
It's not like a 1938 jacket so I think it unlikely that the contract number refers to this. More likely a special contract between AM (note the marks) and DGL (whoever they were). The suit (to anticipate Andrew's question) has the characteristics of the 1940-41 period.
Alan
Alan Eardley said:
Alan, I know you have camera issues but i'd really like to see this suit in total if you have the opportunity. It's a first for me with seeing the label too.
On the subject of Kew, if anyone's going I have a series of document numbers i'd like looked at and possibly copied- the cost to have them do it is o.t.t.
If anyone can help i'd appreciate it.
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,500
- Location
- Midlands, UK
Andrew,
The suit is promised to Paddy, so when we eventually meet up and I can pass it on to him I'm sure he'll post lots of photographs. I must say that DGL stuff is my favourite. The jackets have a rather distinctive collar shape.
I may be able to visit Kew during the summer.
Alan
The suit is promised to Paddy, so when we eventually meet up and I can pass it on to him I'm sure he'll post lots of photographs. I must say that DGL stuff is my favourite. The jackets have a rather distinctive collar shape.
I may be able to visit Kew during the summer.
Alan
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- METROPOLIS OF EUROPA
WILCO on that Alan.
You'll all be begging for mercy, pleading, "no more photos, please Paddy!! have mercy upon us!!"
But the digi-camera will be clicking away to catelogue all the features to add to our resource in here.
You'll all be begging for mercy, pleading, "no more photos, please Paddy!! have mercy upon us!!"
But the digi-camera will be clicking away to catelogue all the features to add to our resource in here.
- Messages
- 7,425
- Location
- METROPOLIS OF EUROPA
ELC...
Currently, Eastman makes the best but it costs. WPG give the best bang for your buck on the Irvin style flying jacket.
Currently, Eastman makes the best but it costs. WPG give the best bang for your buck on the Irvin style flying jacket.
HermannHKG
New in Town
- Messages
- 17
- Location
- Hong Kong
WPG Irvin
Hi folks,
And here is my recently arrived WPG Irvin!
Rdgs,
Hermann
Hi folks,
And here is my recently arrived WPG Irvin!
Rdgs,
Hermann
Group Captain
New in Town
- Messages
- 6
- Location
- Southern CA
Irvin Nuts
My vote would be for the Eastman jacket (old version) as well as their RAF jersey. They keep me quite snug in the Moggie in the cold weather. I wear a fine Willis & Geiger A2 for spring and fall.
My vote would be for the Eastman jacket (old version) as well as their RAF jersey. They keep me quite snug in the Moggie in the cold weather. I wear a fine Willis & Geiger A2 for spring and fall.
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,500
- Location
- Midlands, UK
It occurs to me that...
...although this thread refers to 'Irvin' specifically, the only items mentioned so far have been the sheepskin stuff. I'd like to put in a word for the Irvin Harnessuit.
OK, maybe not so many people 'love 'em' (title of thread) but you have to admit they were significant and interesting. There were three versions on general issue - one with fittings for a chest parachute, one for a seat patrachute and one with combined fittings, all with a standard 'Mae West' bladder. They were general issue to bomber crews in May 1940 and to some fighter crews (e.g. those in Defiants) later. I don't think Mr Prodger includes them in his book? They (and other items not in 'RAF Vs LW') are covered in 'The Royal Air Force 1939-1945' by Andrew Cormack, which I recommend. The similariity to the German 'bone bag' is worth noting.
There was also similar Combined Pattern Flying and GQ suit, but they are outside the scope of this thread, other than to point out that Irvin and GQ are now part of the same company.
Alan
...although this thread refers to 'Irvin' specifically, the only items mentioned so far have been the sheepskin stuff. I'd like to put in a word for the Irvin Harnessuit.
OK, maybe not so many people 'love 'em' (title of thread) but you have to admit they were significant and interesting. There were three versions on general issue - one with fittings for a chest parachute, one for a seat patrachute and one with combined fittings, all with a standard 'Mae West' bladder. They were general issue to bomber crews in May 1940 and to some fighter crews (e.g. those in Defiants) later. I don't think Mr Prodger includes them in his book? They (and other items not in 'RAF Vs LW') are covered in 'The Royal Air Force 1939-1945' by Andrew Cormack, which I recommend. The similariity to the German 'bone bag' is worth noting.
There was also similar Combined Pattern Flying and GQ suit, but they are outside the scope of this thread, other than to point out that Irvin and GQ are now part of the same company.
Alan
Alan Eardley said:
Alan is this the thing you mean? I've always wondered what they were and why you don't see them ANYWHERE- never seen one for sale. I suppose they were phased out early on.
Some form of harness is clearly seen dangling from below the chap scrambling...
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
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- 1,500
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- Midlands, UK
Andrew,
Yes, they are almost certainly Irvin Harnessuits - note the 'shorts'.
The other issue 'combination' suit had long trousers.
This type of suit was standard issue to crews before long-distance high level bombing became the norm, the insulation being perfectly adequate for low level shorter duration flights.
Which gives me a scary thought. The new movie version of The Dam Busters - the cast won't all be wearing Irvin suits as in the 1955 version will they...???
Alan
Yes, they are almost certainly Irvin Harnessuits - note the 'shorts'.
The other issue 'combination' suit had long trousers.
This type of suit was standard issue to crews before long-distance high level bombing became the norm, the insulation being perfectly adequate for low level shorter duration flights.
Which gives me a scary thought. The new movie version of The Dam Busters - the cast won't all be wearing Irvin suits as in the 1955 version will they...???
Alan
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