Civilian A-2

Mike1973 · Aug 6, 2008

I know there is a lot of crossover between here and the VLJ, so a lot of serious jacket aficiando's will already have seen this. Interested to atribute a maker to the jacket though, so no harm in putting it about

After wanting an A-2 for several years, I've finally purchased this last week -

I wanted an original looking jacket I could wear without to much worry. A good repro would be nice, but I'm not a big fella so had the option of buying vintage. Also this is easier on my wallet!

Leather in great condition. Thick and supple. Nice grain, dark seal with a tint of red showing through. Bullet proof goat I think.

Pocket and collar snaps nickel, RAU F.CO. PROV. R.I.

Hanger looks new... label missing. Green cotton lining, with no trace of any stamps.

Epaulette, with shoulder seam.

Mike1973 · Aug 6, 2008

Underarm and vents.

Right pocket. The flap is 1/4 inch too long [huh]

Brass talon zipper... Can anyone help date it from this? Acme Depot describes ones with round holes in the pullers being early?

srivats · Aug 6, 2008

whoa, that is a nice jacket! congrats on the purchase ... I don't know enough to identify this jacket, but it does look great ... it has got a nice patina!

Hawk_Eye · Aug 6, 2008

Beautiful jacket, I really like the grain patterns. Can we see some shots of the jacket being worn?

Senicko_Spain · Aug 6, 2008

That jacket used to belong to me, I sold it awhile back. It never had a label when I had it and the hanger is new as well. Looks like someone put some new knits on it as well. It was way too large for me, about a 42 or so. Great hide. Looks good. It is definitely a private purchase. BTW, the brass Talon was added by me as well.

Mike1973 · Aug 6, 2008

And the fit... Seller gave measurements of 19" shoulders, 20" chest, 25" down the sleeves and the back, both down to the bottom of the knits. Sounded like a good 40, ideal for my 5'9" and 36 chest frame.

Actually the chest is 21 1/2", sleeves 26" to the knit, and back 26" to the knit. :eusa_doh: So a bit more roomy than I'd like, especially the sleeves, which are quite boxy. They don't seem to taper down to the cuff at all.

Anyway, these are all just niggles, and I'm very happy with the jacket. Not perfect by any means, but a good foot on the ladder.

One problem though, along with the lovely patina, it also reeks *yucky* Any tips on getting rid of sweat/tobacco odours?

Mike1973 · Aug 7, 2008

Senicko_Spain said:
That jacket used to belong to me, I sold it awhile back. It never had a label when I had it and the hanger is new as well. Looks like someone put some new knits on it as well. It was way too large for me, about a 42 or so. Great hide. Looks good. It is definitely a private purchase. BTW, the brass Talon was added by me as well.

You did a good job on the zip Steve, must have taken a while using the original holes. I couldn't tell it had been replaced. Seller said the waist knit had been replaced by Aero. Again a nice job.

Senicko_Spain · Aug 7, 2008

Mike1973 said:
You did a good job on the zip Steve, must have taken a while using the original holes. I couldn't tell it had been replaced. Seller said the waist knit had been replaced by Aero. Again a nice job.

I just provided the puller, the tape is original. Yes, the seller I got it from also gave me measurements for a size 36 but when I got the jacket it was huge on me. I wish it fit as it was one of the nicest civi A-2s I have seen. he must have spent some money on the jacket, cuz I sold it to him for about 275 USD and then the knits he had installed, well, just let me congratulate you, you got good deal. Enjoy in good health.

Mike1973 · Aug 7, 2008

Senicko_Spain said:
I just provided the puller, the tape is original. Yes, the seller I got it from also gave me measurements for a size 36 but when I got the jacket it was huge on me. I wish it fit as it was one of the nicest civi A-2s I have seen. he must have spent some money on the jacket, cuz I sold it to him for about 275 USD and then the knits he had installed, well, just let me congratulate you, you got good deal. Enjoy in good health.

Interesting, I got it for $35 over what you sold it. Seems that's about the ceiling for civvie jackets? I wonder how much the knit replacement cost? More than $35...
Glad you only replaced the slider, I've been scratching my head working out how anyone could stitch a tape in so perfectly! lol

Been doing a little surfing on Acme Depot, and this jacket shares similarities with the W535-AC-23383 contract - goatskin/pocket shape/stand collar. But the stand collar is of a different construction, the shoulder seam is in a different place, under the epaulette not behind.
Could a fairly faithful copy of a military A2 be produced by a company that never held a military contract? How many other companys were producing jackets then? 'Air Associates' and 'Security Aviation Togs' spring to mind...

Senicko_Spain · Aug 7, 2008

Mike1973 said:
Interesting, I got it for $35 over what you sold it. Seems that's about the ceiling for civvie jackets? I wonder how much the knit replacement cost? More than $35...
Glad you only replaced the slider, I've been scratching my head working out how anyone could stitch a tape in so perfectly! lol

Been doing a little surfing on Acme Depot, and this jacket shares similarities with the W535-AC-23383 contract - goatskin/pocket shape/stand collar. But the stand collar is of a different construction, the shoulder seam is in a different place, under the epaulette not behind.
Could a fairly faithful copy of a military A2 be produced by a company that never held a military contract? How many other companys were producing jackets then? 'Air Associates' and 'Security Aviation Togs' spring to mind...

There was also an Australian A-2 manufactured, I have never seen one in the flesh though. Here's a pic of the tag.

I also had a 23383 contract that I purchased from Paddy a couple of years ago. I ended up selling it a few months ago. It didn't look anything like this jacket you bought. Here's a pic of that jacket as well. I liked the fit, but hated the sleeves, they were too boxy and the jacket rode up in the back way too much for my taste, just not very comfortable. I do think I remember John Chapman mentioning that this contract was actually made Willis and Geiger who made M-422s, hence the similarity of this jacket to the M-422.

Edward · Aug 7, 2008

This private purchase A2, is this potentially an example of the early cottage industry "reproductions" of issued jackets that the blurb in a lot of the modern repro jacket ads here in the UK refers to? Great looking jacket, I agree with those who have complimented its patina. Hide looks really nice.

Baron Kurtz · Aug 7, 2008

I believe civilian manufacturers - period Sear's etc. catalogues feature A2 models if i recall correctly - were working from the same or very similar patterns as the military were using. No reason why not.

bk

Senicko_Spain · Aug 7, 2008

This private purchase A2, is this potentially an example of the early cottage industry "reproductions" of issued jackets that the blurb in a lot of the modern repro jacket ads here in the UK refers to?

Hit the nail right on the head. Yes.

BellyTank · Aug 7, 2008

Nice jacket, Mike.

I'm sure some of the wartime manf's made A-2 clones, post-War.
I think it was a Monarch Mfg. example I saw, which was almost identical to a wartime model but had a commercial label. There are many B-15 look-a-likes that were made post-war too, which often get flogged as wartime examples.
They tend to have a straight front zipper and the military spec. no. is missing from the military style label.

B
T

Mike1973 · Aug 7, 2008

Edward said:
This private purchase A2

I would only call it a 'Private Purchase' is there was proof of it being bought and used by a servicemen. Otherwise it is a civilian jacket in the military style of the period. I wonder what the perceived market was at the time, civilian or military? That is of course if this was made during the war.

Edward · Aug 8, 2008

Interesting... seems like not only a great jacket at a great price, but something a little different than the 'norm' too. I wonder if the civilian A2 manufacturers were ever faced with the sort of accuracy demands modern repro makers have to contend with.

silhouette53 · Aug 10, 2008

Mike1973 said:
And the fit... Seller gave measurements of 19" shoulders, 20" chest, 25" down the sleeves and the back, both down to the bottom of the knits. Sounded like a good 40, ideal for my 5'9" and 36 chest frame.

Actually the chest is 21 1/2", sleeves 26" to the knit, and back 26" to the knit. :eusa_doh: So a bit more roomy than I'd like, especially the sleeves, which are quite boxy. They don't seem to taper down to the cuff at all.

Anyway, these are all just niggles, and I'm very happy with the jacket. Not perfect by any means, but a good foot on the ladder.

One problem though, along with the lovely patina, it also reeks *yucky* Any tips on getting rid of sweat/tobacco odours?

Hi Mike
The jacket looks great on you, big or not but what really struck me is your look - you look like you stepped right out of the 40's !!!!! The hair etc is just spot on - if those pics were in B&W they could easily have been taken back during WW2 - totally cool !!!

greyhound68 · Aug 11, 2008

After the war some of the contract A2 makers made some civilian models. I have had both a Star and Doniger post war version. Were near identical to the wartime models. This may be one of those or as suggested a wartime private purchase.

Mike1973 · Aug 11, 2008

silhouette53 said:
Hi Mike
The jacket looks great on you, big or not but what really struck me is your look - you look like you stepped right out of the 40's !!!!! The hair etc is just spot on - if those pics were in B&W they could easily have been taken back during WW2 - totally cool !!!

I come from a background of doing Second World War and Great War Living History, so since a teenager have always had a short back and sides. I'm 35 now so really getting too old for it, but it has lead on to a love of vintage clothes, and there's no age limit for being a civilian

Hair's getting a bit thin on top though, and is usually hidden under a newsboy cap

I get people come up to me occasionally when I'm 'in kit', saying I remind them so much of their dad/uncle/brother in the War... I guess I've just got an old fashioned looking face. Very humbling though, makes you realise it's more than just 'dressing up' to a lot of people with very strong memories of our recent past.

The moustache was short lived though, as always. Had a job as an extra in a TV advert, and the 'tache suited the role, but the wife hates it lol

Mike1973 · Aug 11, 2008

Several of the learned posters on VLJ have mentioned a likeness to the Werber? Along with the Roughwear one of my favourite contracters. Might do a bit more research on them...

Civilian A-2

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