Give your patriotism a boost here: Share what makes you feel patriotic

reetpleat · Oct 22, 2008

Kassia said:
Absolutley agree with you!! But then i am Canadian so we similar system..
I am sure that others in other Constitutional Monarchies may agree too..

Well, other than the fact that I have heard that occasionally certain countries like Thailand have been saved from a revolution or coup d'etat due to the king intervening, I would be interested to see just how receptive many countries would be, especially the ones who are connected to a king or queen that is not even the king or queen of their own country, such as England, if that regent tried to step in and override a decision made by the legislative bodies.

In other words, how many australians would stand for Queen Elizabeth actually coming in and trying to overrule the democratic decisions of the country. Could they actually do that?

reetpleat · Oct 22, 2008

carter said:
:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Here is an abbreviated history of one of the most stirring national anthems ever composed, the Marseillaise.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/marseill.html

Love the scene in Casablanca wher ethey sing it. You can imagine what it would mean to soldiers who do not even have an independant country anymore. although I do not understand entirely the whole Vichy thing.

LordBest · Oct 22, 2008

reetpleat said:
Well, other than the fact that I have heard that occasionally certain countries like Thailand have been saved from a revolution or coup d'etat due to the king intervening, I would be interested to see just how receptive many countries would be, especially the ones who are connected to a king or queen that is not even the king or queen of their own country, such as England, if that regent tried to step in and override a decision made by the legislative bodies.

In other words, how many australians would stand for Queen Elizabeth actually coming in and trying to overrule the democratic decisions of the country. Could they actually do that?

Her Majesty can not. The Governor General can, he or she can advise a government that what it is doing is unconsitutional (assuming it is, of course) and should the government continue to behave unconstitutionally the GG can revoke the governments commissin, ie dismiss it. Another election is held. The GG would only do this after consulting the Monarch, and the Monarch could advise the GG but ultimately it is the GGs decision.
It is also worth remembering that Queen Elizabeth is the Queen of Australia, as well as Queen of Canada and Queen of England, but the Queen of England is not the Queen of Australia and Canada.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_union
It may seem complicated, but it makes me feel patriotic.

Spitfire · Oct 22, 2008

reetpleat said:
Well, other than the fact that I have heard that occasionally certain countries like Thailand have been saved from a revolution or coup d'etat due to the king intervening, I would be interested to see just how receptive many countries would be, especially the ones who are connected to a king or queen that is not even the king or queen of their own country, such as England, if that regent tried to step in and override a decision made by the legislative bodies.

In other words, how many australians would stand for Queen Elizabeth actually coming in and trying to overrule the democratic decisions of the country. Could they actually do that?

Most royal families are well-bred and well mannered. They know their place.
Luckily

Mojito · Oct 22, 2008

I've thoroughly enjoyed the discussion so far on the nature of patriotism, and the many different viewpoints presented. I'm perhaps not the strongest patriot around, if there's any degree of mutual exclusivity to it (which I suppose is debatable) - I hold both Australian and British passports and feel a great deal of affection for both countries, as I do for the Irish Republic. Having lived and travelled all over the world (I didn't set foot in Australia until I was almost three years old, and have lived almost half my life elsewhere). I tend to regard myself more as a citizen of the world who loves the best in humanity rather than a strong, overwhelming tie to one nation. I admire the achievements and character of many lands, including the USA (where I lived for three years and visit often).

Australia might not be perfect, but I am proud of what we have achieved while being conscious that we are working towards addressing the problems that every nation faces. I feel patriotic on polling day, inspired by the fact that no matter how passionate we become when an election rolls around, we can still front up to a ballot box and vote for the candidate we support without men with guns standing by either to protect us or to coerce us.

And I feel a great swell of affection and pride in the best of this country when I go down to my local beach on a summer day. We hear about local conflicts and antagonisms, and yes - they are real, and are one of the challenges we face. What we don't hear as much about is places like our "family" beach, where people of all backgrounds bask in the sun. Large Italian-Australian families, with their wonderful set ups of cabana, eskies of food and drink, rugs, umbrellas etc. South Americans with their gorgeous skin tone and love of excellent food and drink. Fair skinned folk like myself of Anglo-Celtic background smothered in sunscreen. Muslim families, with the women wearing scarves and laughing as they run in front of the waves. Refugees from Sierra Leone who have joined our life here on the beaches, some of them assisted by community groups like the one my mother is active in. Best of all is seeing the kiddiewinkies, all milling together at the waters edge, squealing with glee as they duck in and out of the water, playing together. Some have come from around the corner, some have driven over an hour from far west Sydney to get to the coast. But everyone united in loving the climate and good living.

Lone_Ranger · Oct 22, 2008

This one always gets me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtPBv0KEQNc

Dieter · Oct 23, 2008

The thing that makes me feel patriotic (proud of being an American the MOST) are civilized debates; one side submitting solutions to an issue, and the other side submitting different solutions to the same problem, and neither side shouting down, insulting or even murdering their opposition.

In the end, both points of view are considered and then the problem tackled using the best elements of both points of view. When finished arguing, both parties go out for either drinks or cake & coffee, and discover their commonalities. incidentally, Ronald Reagan and his biggest critic, Tip O'Neill were famous for this practice, sharing drinks after hours in the Oval Office.

Voting also makes me appreciate (love) my country very much; hundreds of thousands died for our right to vote (although they did NOT die for politicians or the "yes means no"/"no means yes" propositions on the ballot), and to not vote would be to let those brave men down.

And I think that Mark Twain said it best when he wrote, "No party holds the privilege of dictating to me how I shall vote. If loyalty to party is a form of patriotism, I am no patriot."

pgoat · Oct 23, 2008

voting

seeing other American citizens voting

Dr Doran · Oct 23, 2008

Mojito, Dieter, I like your points very much.

HarpPlayerGene · Oct 23, 2008

reetpleat said:
Dangerous question. Don't ask Irish people if they prefer Orange or Green.

HA! And ooops!

Didn't pause for a second to think about that when arbitrarily picking example colors, but good point.

HarpPlayerGene · Oct 23, 2008

Mojito, you're a class act!

Baron Kurtz · Oct 23, 2008

reetpleat said:
In other words, how many australians would stand for Queen Elizabeth actually coming in and trying to overrule the democratic decisions of the country. Could they actually do that?

See lord bests response. Wasn't there an Australian PM somtime int he 60s or 70s who was removed from office by the Governer General.

In the UK, the monarch has a power of veto on, i think, all legislation. In that, if she don't sign, it ain't law. But she would never dare do so. She knows only too well that she is tolerated and nothing more. there are plenty Cromwells around the corner to deal with her should she try that one!

bk

Edward · Oct 23, 2008

Baron Kurtz said:
In the UK, the monarch has a power of veto on, i think, all legislation. In that, if she don't sign, it ain't law. But she would never dare do so. She knows only too well that she is tolerated and nothing more. there are plenty Cromwells around the corner to deal with her should she try that one!

Very true... the monarchy does, as said above 'know its place' well, and how best to maintain that privileged position. The recent modernising moves, designed to cut costs and make the monarchy more efficient, are of course aimed at minimising criticism. After all, however many we committed to the Republican cause as a matter of ethical principle / ideal, the reality is that the vast majority of folks will only ever be likely to support change when either it hits them severely in the pocket, or something particularly upsets them greatly. I don't see this occuring any time soon. On the other hand, given the large proportion of folks who want a hereditary monarchy, but are opposed to Charles III (hereditary principle be damned, in that case it seems), were William Wales to become equally as unpopular, and with his younger brother following in the footsteps of Uncle Andrew, that might provoke an interesting set of developments.

reetpleat said:
Dangerous question. Don't ask Irish people if they prefer Orange or Green.

lol

reetpleat said:
I especially like this land is your land because it was written by Woodie Guthrie. I like it anyway, but he was such a populist, and when I hear the song, I am reminded at both the beauty of our land, but also that this land is your and my land, not the elite, not the government, not the politicians, but all of ours. That song does indeed make me feel patriotic.

I'm quite a fna of that one too. Definitely one to keep the ruling classes on their toes, eh?

Spitfire · Oct 23, 2008

Mojito - that was beautifull.:eusa_clap :eusa_clap
That's the kind of patriotism I like.

Warbaby · Oct 24, 2008

Ok, someone has to do it...

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
- Samuel Johnson

"When a whole nation is roaring patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and purity of its heart."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Patriotism in its simplest, clearest and most indubitable signification is nothing else but a means of obtaining for the rulers their ambitions and covetous desires, and for the ruled the abdication of human dignity, reason, conscience, and a slavish enthralment to those in power."
- Tolstoy

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
- George Bernard Shaw

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
- Oscar Wilde

Kassia · Oct 24, 2008

reetpleat said:
Well, other than the fact that I have heard that occasionally certain countries like Thailand have been saved from a revolution or coup d'etat due to the king intervening, I would be interested to see just how receptive many countries would be, especially the ones who are connected to a king or queen that is not even the king or queen of their own country, such as England, if that regent tried to step in and override a decision made by the legislative bodies.

In other words, how many australians would stand for Queen Elizabeth actually coming in and trying to overrule the democratic decisions of the country. Could they actually do that?

That is one reason why former PM Pierre Trudeau repatriated Canada's constitution.. The Crown does not have final say over bills and the internal affairs of our country...

I believe that the English queen is the figurehead of Canada not the highest ruling body... And to that effect i believe that the Governor General has very little power too...

Kassia · Oct 24, 2008

The Canadian words to This Land is Our land are as such..

In Canada, the song is sung with the first verse altered to make Canadian geographical references. This version was written and popularized by Canadian folk music group The Travellers in 1955:[7]
This land is your land, This land is my land,
From Bonavista, to Vancouver Island
From the Arctic Circle to the Great Lakes waters,
This land was made for you and me.

So it can be a "patriotic" song for many nations.. You just change the words to fit...
In fact here is the Wikipedia entry for it.. Seems it's been adapted to many nations...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Land_Is_Your_Land

I cry when i hear Oh Canada sung, even in other languages! I have a fantastic recording of the Russian Red Army Choir singing it too.. It's a fantastic anthem in any language....

OH BTW, Australians and New Zealanders, do you still sing God Save the Queen/King?

Kassia · Oct 24, 2008

reetpleat said:
Well, other than the fact that I have heard that occasionally certain countries like Thailand have been saved from a revolution or coup d'etat due to the king intervening, I would be interested to see just how receptive many countries would be, especially the ones who are connected to a king or queen that is not even the king or queen of their own country, such as England, if that regent tried to step in and override a decision made by the legislative bodies.

In other words, how many australians would stand for Queen Elizabeth actually coming in and trying to overrule the democratic decisions of the country. Could they actually do that?

Is Thailand a constitutional monarchy such as Canada?

Kassia · Oct 24, 2008

Mojito said:
I've thoroughly enjoyed the discussion so far on the nature of patriotism, and the many different viewpoints presented. I'm perhaps not the strongest patriot around, if there's any degree of mutual exclusivity to it (which I suppose is debatable) - I hold both Australian and British passports and feel a great deal of affection for both countries, as I do for the Irish Republic. Having lived and travelled all over the world (I didn't set foot in Australia until I was almost three years old, and have lived almost half my life elsewhere). I tend to regard myself more as a citizen of the world who loves the best in humanity rather than a strong, overwhelming tie to one nation. I admire the achievements and character of many lands, including the USA (where I lived for three years and visit often).

Australia might not be perfect, but I am proud of what we have achieved while being conscious that we are working towards addressing the problems that every nation faces. I feel patriotic on polling day, inspired by the fact that no matter how passionate we become when an election rolls around, we can still front up to a ballot box and vote for the candidate we support without men with guns standing by either to protect us or to coerce us.

And I feel a great swell of affection and pride in the best of this country when I go down to my local beach on a summer day. We hear about local conflicts and antagonisms, and yes - they are real, and are one of the challenges we face. What we don't hear as much about is places like our "family" beach, where people of all backgrounds bask in the sun. Large Italian-Australian families, with their wonderful set ups of cabana, eskies of food and drink, rugs, umbrellas etc. South Americans with their gorgeous skin tone and love of excellent food and drink. Fair skinned folk like myself of Anglo-Celtic background smothered in sunscreen. Muslim families, with the women wearing scarves and laughing as they run in front of the waves. Refugees from Sierra Leone who have joined our life here on the beaches, some of them assisted by community groups like the one my mother is active in. Best of all is seeing the kiddiewinkies, all milling together at the waters edge, squealing with glee as they duck in and out of the water, playing together. Some have come from around the corner, some have driven over an hour from far west Sydney to get to the coast. But everyone united in loving the climate and good living.

Ahhh that does sound alot like Canada... But we must have a shorter beach season than you do!!!

Spitfire · Oct 24, 2008

Warbaby said:
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
- Samuel Johnson

"When a whole nation is roaring patriotism at the top of its voice, I am fain to explore the cleanness of its hands and purity of its heart."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

"Patriotism in its simplest, clearest and most indubitable signification is nothing else but a means of obtaining for the rulers their ambitions and covetous desires, and for the ruled the abdication of human dignity, reason, conscience, and a slavish enthralment to those in power."
- Tolstoy

"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
- George Bernard Shaw

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious."
- Oscar Wilde

Thank you!:eusa_clap :eusa_clap
(I especially like the one by George Bernard Shaw)

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