who belongs to a Lodge

Widebrim · Jan 9, 2009

Veterans of Foreign Wars. I am, I think, the second youngest in our post. However, there are posts in other parts of the country which successfully recruit younger members.

Geesie · Jan 9, 2009

PLEASE NOTE: The following is a matter of factual statement and is not meant to be an endorsement, defense of, or attack on any position.

No, Catholics may not be Masons. The most recent statement on the issue is this:

Issued by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on November 26, 1983.

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous Code.

This Sacred Congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

Some of the reasons given by the Church are:

Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me." (John 14:6).

Freemasonry's teachings and practices also result in syncretism which is the blending of different religious beliefs into a unified whole. This is evidenced most especially by Masonry's religious rituals which gather men of all faiths around a common altar, and place all religious writings along side the Bible on the Masonic altar. This is also demonstrated by the Lodge's prayers and its unique names and symbols for God and heaven. Syncretism is the logical consequence of indifferentism.

The Lodge's practice of requiring its members to swear immoral oaths is also incompatible with Christianity. These oaths require a Christian to swear on the Holy Bible that he will uphold a code of moral conduct that prefers Masons over non-Masons, and to preserve secret passwords and handshakes. Such oaths are gravely immoral because their subject matter is trivial or does not give rise to the necessity of an oath. These oaths are also sworn under symbolic, blood-curdling penalties of physical torture and death called self-curses (e.g., having my throat cut across, and my tongue torn out by its roots). These penalties show a lack of respect for God and amount to blasphemy which is a serious sin.

AGAIN I AM NOT ARGUING FOR OR AGAINST THESE STATEMENTS
I am providing information which was requested/unsure.

Imahomer · Jan 9, 2009

I am a Mason and I know several Catholics who are also Masons. I know at one time the church didn't think you could do both, which led to the formation of the Knights of Columbus. Anyhow, there isn't any rule in a Masonic Lodge about keeping out Catholics.

Geesie · Jan 9, 2009

Actually, I should be more precise. Catholics can be Masons. One does not stop being a Catholic except with a declaration of apostasy.
However, if a Catholic joins the Masons with the knowledge that it is forbidden (c.f. aforementioned doctrinal statement) then he incurs excommunication in latae senteniae, which is to say that he is considered (literally) "out of full communion" with the Church and is barred from receiving the sacraments (except, of course, for confession).

Imahomer · Jan 9, 2009

I had thought that the church reversed their position on that. As they have with so many other things.

Geesie · Jan 9, 2009

Nope, the 1983 statement is the most recent statement released on the matter.

Imahomer · Jan 9, 2009

Really? Huh...[huh]

Choeki · Jan 15, 2009

When I was a college student I asked my internship mentor professor if it was possible to join his lodge, and his response at the time was that it was "just a gathering of old men who drank booze into the night" so I was better off not bothering. However, when I was on Sand Hill at Fort Benning I noticed that nearly all the Drill Sergeant's POVs had a Masonic disc on them. Later, when I did an internship for Customs (pre-9/11) I noticed a number of the senior and junior Special Agents were members as well. What I can't seem to figure out though is if membership in a Lodge is an asset or liability in a government service career. Can anyone enlighten me?

Maguire · Jan 15, 2009

No but my neighbor down the block was, and i currently own his pocket watch, cufflinks, fedora, and a few other affects (the pocket watch is emblazoned with the G and the other freemasonry symbols.)

Choeki · Jan 15, 2009

Maguire said:
No but my neighbor down the block was, and i currently own his pocket watch, cufflinks, fedora, and a few other affects (the pocket watch is emblazoned with the G and the other freemasonry symbols.)

I've been wondering about this sort of thing as well. The local antique shop I frequent has a number of very well made antique Masonic cuff links, tie bars and other accessories for very reasonable prices. However, I get the feeling that no matter how nice they are it would be a bad idea to wear them as a fashion statement if one wasn't actually a member... Sort of like those guys that strut around wearing US Navy Seal or other Special Forces badged items who never even served in the military. Maybe I'm over thinking this?

Diamondback · Jan 15, 2009

Choeki, I'd say it cuts either way on "asset/liability"--many of this country's most prominent figures in history were Masons, but there are also people who tend to automatically assume any kind of "secret society" is up to no good and some vast conspiracy just 'cause they don't let everyone know all their nitpicky little details. (And those people conveniently overlook the sharp Mason-on-Mason conflicts in history, Truman vs. MacArthur being one of the most recent and most visible...)

I'm not a Mason, as previously noted, but after my grandfather died a lot of his Lodge buddies took me in, so I have almost all the knowledge of a low-level member in spite of not being formally part of the organization.

KY Gentleman · Jan 15, 2009

Choeki said:
When I was a college student I asked my internship mentor professor if it was possible to join his lodge, and his response at the time was that it was "just a gathering of old men who drank booze into the night" so I was better off not bothering. However, when I was on Sand Hill at Fort Benning I noticed that nearly all the Drill Sergeant's POVs had a Masonic disc on them. Later, when I did an internship for Customs (pre-9/11) I noticed a number of the senior and junior Special Agents were members as well. What I can't seem to figure out though is if membership in a Lodge is an asset or liability in a government service career. Can anyone enlighten me?

I've been a Mason for awhile now and a) we don't drink at the Lodge. I've been a Mason in Georgia and Kentucky Lodges and that is strictly not allowed in the Lodge. b) Presidents have been Masons as well as many high ranking government officials so it can't be a liability. If you want to join a Lodge I think you would find it to be rewarding and a great learning experience. Find a Mason you know and ask him for a petition. Good Luck!

St.Ignatz · Jan 15, 2009

Dad was in the B.P.O.E. but I never joined. I am however a proud member of 32 years of "The Lower Merion Society for the Detection and Prosecution of Horse Thieves and the Recovery of Stolen Horses" est.1818. It's rather low demand in that we get together once a year and eat oysters. Fried, raw and Stewed followed by a full turkey dinner.

dostacos · Jan 15, 2009

Tony in Tarzana said:
There's also the Shriners, but I don't know many people who look good in a fez.

well I spent 20 years working at their Hospital in Los Angeles and went to a few installations and parties { our administrator pimped us out to speak at the temples} and you are correct sir, other than Sidney Greenstreet and a certain guy on the COW board most of the time when I saw them walking around I wanted a snow ball soooooo badl lol

In that time I was only asked twice if I was interested, I declined. Interesting side notes: one the Chairman of the board when I started was the same age as the Average Shriner, now 20 years later...he is the same age as the average Shriner

Also the Hospital administrator is specifically forbidden from being a Shriner[huh]

dostacos · Jan 15, 2009

KY Gentleman said:
I've been a Mason for awhile now and a) we don't drink at the Lodge. I've been a Mason in Georgia and Kentucky Lodges and that is strictly not allowed in the Lodge. b) Presidents have been Masons as well as many high ranking government officials so it can't be a liability. If you want to join a Lodge I think you would find it to be rewarding and a great learning experience. Find a Mason you know and ask him for a petition. Good Luck!

wow they sure do in the SHRINE TEMPLES. the Vegas guys are proud they have the LONGEST bar in town. They rent that hall/bar out for Weddings and other outside bashes as well as their own get'em togethers. The guys in Aridzona and New Mexico had no problems with booze either. Maybe it is a Shriner thing[huh]

dostacos · Jan 15, 2009

Choeki said:
I've been wondering about this sort of thing as well. The local antique shop I frequent has a number of very well made antique Masonic cuff links, tie bars and other accessories for very reasonable prices. However, I get the feeling that no matter how nice they are it would be a bad idea to wear them as a fashion statement if one wasn't actually a member... Sort of like those guys that strut around wearing US Navy Seal or other Special Forces badged items who never even served in the military. Maybe I'm over thinking this?

I think I would agree, except I would be willing to use the watch as it stays hidden most of the time, OR if it was from a Grandfather or Father, wearing in their honor would be fine with me, not sure about the Masons or
Shriners though[huh]

Maguire · Jan 15, 2009

that reminds me, i wore a fez back in high school and remember being confused when people would ask me "are you a mason?" I had no idea what they were talking about. I never felt comfortable wearing any of the stuff with masonry insignia except the pocket watch because i prefered using this cheaper one than my higher quality soviet pocket watch, along with one i brought back from Ireland. Now i have some tin chinese one i won for 1 penny on ebay for that purpose.

KY Gentleman · Jan 15, 2009

dostacos said:
wow they sure do in the SHRINE TEMPLES. the Vegas guys are proud they have the LONGEST bar in town. They rent that hall/bar out for Weddings and other outside bashes as well as their own get'em togethers. The guys in Aridzona and New Mexico had no problems with booze either. Maybe it is a Shriner thing[huh]

The Shriners do great work, especially with Shriners Childrens Hospitals.
All Shriners are Masons but not all Masons are Shriners.
I'm not a Shriner so I don't know what they allow or don't allow, but I can tell you I have never seen anyone drink alcohol in a Masonic Lodge.
Masonry is a great institution, if you are interested in it I promise you'll get out of it what you put into it!

PistolPete1969 · Jan 17, 2009

Masons

My grandfather was a 32nd level Mason. I am looking into joining a local lodge myself.

Perhaps we can have a special "Order of the Vintage" ourselves, kinda modeled on the Waterbuffalos.

Several of my shooting buddies and I have an informal Brotherhood called the "Order of the Bullshooters"; it seems to fit....

Pete

RBH · Jan 17, 2009

dostacos said:
Maybe it is a Shriner thing[huh]

It is .

who belongs to a Lodge

I'll Lock Up

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I'll Lock Up

One Too Many

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