ALL ORIGINAL Irvin RAF type Jackets - Loving that Wolf in sheeps' clothing!

Windsock · Apr 2, 2009

This is a good excuse to post these shots again

. Last year I tested out what it was like to fit a 6'2" body wearing an Irvin in a MkV Spit. I fit in easily enough but it was cramped and the jacket certainly did make a big difference with regards a sense of mobility.

Tim, your other point about cockpit heating was confirmed by my Beaufighter Mate. You might remember he didn't even recognize the Irvin I showed him as our flying kit, (he actually thought it was American- a B-3). He was at Dallachy from 1944 and only wore battledress and when on the ground a great coat. Some of them like the CO (WC Colin Milson) had a version of the sleevelss shortpile Irvin waistcoat. The Beaufighter had a comfortably warm cockpit and as we well know sorties were invariably low level.

Smithy · Apr 3, 2009

H.Johnson said:
Good points, Smithy. Also, may I offer that the work of RAF fighter pilots changed as their role in the air war moved from defensive to offensive, involving more low-level 'sweeps' and co-ordination with ground forces (after the Invasion) and less high-level interceptions, your example of 2nd TAF being perfect in this regard.

Irrespective of cockpit space (there is a lot of room in a Tempest or Typhoon cockpit) a sheepskin suit or jacket is more of a liability than an asset at lower level. Photographic evidence would suggest that even bomber crews flew low-level operations in BD or even (e.g. Operation Chastise) shirt-sleeve order.

Excellent points Mr Johnson!

And great photos Andrew

What we tend to forget is that the Irvin was designed whilst the RAF were still using open cockpit aircraft (hence the erection strap on the back of the collar on earlier examples) so it was initially devised to keep aircrew warm and bundled up at high altitudes and in the roaring, open and frigid slipstreams experienced in open cockpit flying. It found worthwhile use with the bomber boys flying at night at freezing high altitudes but truth be told it wasn't the ideal piece of kit for pilots flying in heated, single seat fighter aircraft, especially as the war progressed.

Spitfire · Apr 6, 2009

It seems like the Irvin - just like the Spitfire - became the symbol/icon of RAF and the Battle of Britain.
A bit unfair really, since the Hurricane bagged 3 times as many EA. And most of the pilots flew in sweaters, shirtsleeves or unifom jackets in that long hot summer of 1940.
But I guesse we all need symbols

ethanedwards · Apr 6, 2009

"Among my possessions was a fur-lined leather jacket which had once belonged to a Coastal Command flyer. It had been taken off his drowned body and the zip fastener was ruined by sea water. Because of it's morbid associations I wore it only on motor-bike journeys, but when Paul said his electrically heated suit was defective, and he asked if he might borrow the jacket for our next flight, I couldn't refuse. He had often lent me his bike. Nevertheless I didn't like the idea of him wearing a dead man's gear, but I said nothing about its history and he donned the jacket."

Excerpt copyright Miles Tripp, taken from 'The Eighth Passenger'.

I don't expect these questions are answerable but I wonder why the author was issued a damaged jacket, taken from deceased aircrew. And why wasn't the gunner issued his own jacket from stores. The timeframe is around the Autumn of 1944. Did they really have to mend and make do?
It's interesting to note how great an influence superstition remained, and also how Mr.Tripp does not use the term 'Irvin jacket'. This is a tremendous book BTW and I would recommend it unreservedly to anyone interested in operational flying in Bomber Command.

kitty_koo · Apr 17, 2009

came across this forum and thread whilst i was looking for WAAF Nursing Orderlies photos. I have a few more photos of WAAF's wearing Irvin's that havent been posted on here so thought i'd sign up and share them

I also actually own a size 1 hooded Coastal Command Irvin, i presume its 1942 issue, is the only one ive seen thats a woman's size 1, or the only woman's one i seen! Here are a few photos:

aswatland · Apr 17, 2009

Irvins ranged from size 1 to size 8 and were designed for male pilots/aircrew, but as we all know they were worn women! Size 1s are very rare indeed. Yes, I would date yours to 1942-3 as its typical mid War four panel construction. Can you please give me the full contract number as I may be able to tell you which contractor made it.

kitty_koo · Apr 17, 2009

aswatland said:
Irvins ranged from size 1 to size 8 and were designed for male pilots/aircrew, but as we all know they were worn women! Size 1s are very rare indeed. Yes, I would date yours to 1942-3 as its typical mid War four panel construction. Can you please give me the full contract number as I may be able to tell you which contractor made it.

Hi, thanks for the quick reply and those bits of info!

Unfortunately i dont have my Irvin to hand atm, its in Hereford and im in Birmingham, but as soon as i do get it i'll put the contract number on here

aswatland · Apr 17, 2009

kitty_koo said:
Hi, thanks for the quick reply and those bits of info! Unfortunately i dont have my Irvin to hand atm, its in Hereford and im in Birmingham, but as soon as i do get it i'll put the contract number on here

Thanks. BTW I love the name on the label-B. Small. This sums it up. a size 1 Irvin for a small person!

blacklagoon · Apr 18, 2009

Those pictures are truly spectacular Kitty_Koo.Thank you so much for posting them.Your black wool coastal command irvin is the second one i have seen with black wool,the other one was size 3,and sold on ebay a few months ago.Your jacket is in seriously beautiful condition for it's age Kitty_Koo,much better condition than both of mine.I,like Andrew,regard a size 1 as quite rare,and it is wonderful to see one that has been bought,rather than ignored because it is too small to wear.Most irvin jackets on the market today,mostly range from sizes small to medium,which leads to the conclusion, that most people who wore them,were small to medium sized people.
I really look forward to any more pictures you post of WAAF Nursing Orderlies wearing their coastal command issued irvin jackets.

aswatland · Apr 18, 2009

blacklagoon said:
Those pictures are truly spectacular Kitty_Koo.Thank you so much for posting them.Your black wool coastal command irvin is the second one i have seen with black wool,the other one was size 3,and sold on ebay a few months ago.Your jacket is in seriously beautiful condition for it's age Kitty_Koo,much better condition than both of mine.I,like Andrew,regard a size 1 as quite rare,and it is wonderful to see one that has been bought,rather than ignored because it is too small to wear.Most irvin jackets on the market today,mostly range from sizes small to medium,which leads to the conclusion, that most people who wore them,were small to medium sized people.
I really look forward to any more pictures you post of WAAF Nursing Orderlies wearing their coastal command issued irvin jackets.

Are you sure its really black wool? I think its a typical honey-brown fleece, rather than an ultra rare black beauty!

irvinsuit · Apr 18, 2009

WAAFs in Irvins

Many thanks Kitty_Koo for sharing these pictures because they are fascinating. You are making me even more determined that I will hunt down and get my hands on a wearable hooded Irvin in the near future.

Thanks again for sharing your photos.:eusa_clap

kitty_koo · Apr 18, 2009

thanks for all the great comments and help everyone

when i found the Irvin at a militaria fair (not that long ago actually) i couldnt just leave it there, even though it used up most of my remaining student loan

but because its perfect for my Flying Nightingale portrayal i do

I just noticed the fur does look black in the pic of the close up of the label but it is actually the honey-brown fleece, shall keep a look out for a black fur Irvin though

Here's a picture of my Flying Nightingale impression, taken a couple of weeks ago at the RAF Museum, Hendon. (im on the right, thats my sister on the left)

blacklagoon · Apr 18, 2009

That is a wonderful picture of your sister and yourself,absolutely magnificent.You both look stunning.Thank you for posting it Kitty_Koo.It is great to see the Irvin CC Jacket worn with the rest of the WAAF uniform,in modern vibrant colour.Also,to my mind,it is seriously good to see the WAAF Nursing Orderlies,recognised and included in the history of the Irvin Flying Jacket,Via pictures and discussions in this thread,as they firmly belong there as much as any man.

H.Johnson · Apr 21, 2009

This had to happen. I was visiting Croome Park over Easter - a part of the site of the former RAF Defford and home to the testing wing of joint US/British TRE Malvern (which was so secret in WW2 that if told you what they did there even now I'd have to kill you all) and in the tea-room they have an some B&W WW2 photographs of aircrew, and one man is wearing an 'Irvin' jacket with what appears to be very dark wool (apparently black) in the body, with much lighter coloured wool on the collar.

Incidentally, the Museum at Great Malvern has a an album of 'snapshots' taken by TRE Mailvernpersonnel and there are some great civilian leather bicycling jackets and trilby hats shown. By the way, I am reasonably convinced that the jackets are not 'Luftwaffe' - and neither are the trilby hats.

Charlie · May 12, 2009

Need help for an Irving identification

Any thougt about this baby ?

Post war Irving ???

No tag, no label unfortunatly !
Small bronze spot on the sleeves. (what for ?)

Thanks !

aswatland · May 12, 2009

Identifying this Irvin

This jacket appears to be Irvin Air Chute's 1939 contract. It was originally electrically wired, but the leather wiring chanels have been removed, which was often the case when such a jacket was worn post war. The metal studs were to attach the heated gloves to the jacket. I have a near mint one in my collection, complete with the wiring, minus the plugs!

aswatland · May 18, 2009

ELECTRICALLY WIRED IRVIN

This is a pristine example of Irvin Air Chute's 1939 contract electrically wired Irvin in a decent size 5. Until recently I owned its bigger brother a size 6 from the same contract-B25526/39/C.I.B. This one retains its wiring harness, but the plugs were removed year ago. There is almost no wear to the fleece and it has seen little service if any. The zips are brass single trunnion Dot made in Englands and the tan pulls are original to the jacket. It has had no re-stitching to the seam tapes or belt and the fleece is extremely supple and strong with no issues whatsoever.

blacklagoon · Jun 9, 2009

Vera Atkins Coastal Command Issued Irvin Jacket

That is a wonderful looking irvin jacket Andrew.I would love to have an electrically wired irvin.
I found a picture today,from an old magazine,talking about books.One of the books,was about Vera Atkins,the lady who was responsible for smuggling SOE agents into occupied France during the war.It looks a very interesting book.Anyway,to kill two birds with one stone,i have found a picture of Vera Atkins wearing her coastal command issued irvin flying jacket,which happens to be on the front cover of a book written about her.Here it is

aswatland · Jun 9, 2009

Vera's CC Irvin appears to be newly issued. Thanks for sharing this picture and for your comments on my electrically wired Irvin. It's the best I have owned on this variety and would be extremely hard to upgrade.

irvinsuit · Jun 9, 2009

Vera Atkins coastal command irvin

Great photo and the jacket does look very new and pristine. Have you noticed the depth of the fur, it is very long and goes against the current trend to have new short cropped sheepskin Irvins. Having observed how many comments and photos there have been on hooded Irvins then there must be a market for new ones especially if they have the proper longer fur.
I think that it's time for one of the jacket manufacturers to do a limited production run or for someone to flog me an original 42inch chest in immaculate condition

Lanc

ALL ORIGINAL Irvin RAF type Jackets - Loving that Wolf in sheeps' clothing!

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