Show us your Guns!

There is a great book by the late Don Zutz called THE DOUBLE SHOTGUN in which he explains why the straight stocked sxs is the ultimate in wingshooting instruments. A must read for double gun enthusiasts.

Straight Stock

Good book! I have been upland hunting for many years,Delaware County NY,good grouse country.I am using an AH Fox "A" grade side by built 1926 Gough style engraving,original down to Silvers pad.I do like the straight stocked guns,Used a T Bland for many years with straight stock,light gun sorry I got rid of it now.But the Fox is a great gun,probably as good as a Parker,no better!

If three people say it, it MUST be true...

shortbow said:

There is a great book by the late Don Zutz called THE DOUBLE SHOTGUN in which he explains why the straight stocked sxs is the ultimate in wingshooting instruments. A must read for double gun enthusiasts.

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I guess we all not only have the same taste in guns...but in books. The Zutz is magisterial...and unlike some authors--PARTICULARLY where SxSs are concerned--he doesn't mistake logic for ideology. He makes his case for DT with straight stock based on mechanics, not aesthetics...and similarly logical cases for pistol grips with STs. And on an on with a hundred different details.

Anyone with an interest in these guns--or shotgunnery in general, I think--who doesn't happen to have a copy on their shelves should, in my opinion, remedy that immediately, and give themselves a treat in the way of a good read with plenty to think about....

http://used.addall.com/SuperRare/submitRare.cgi?author=Don+Zutz&title=double+shotgun&keyword=&isbn=&order=TITLE&ordering=ASC&dispCurr=USD&binding=Any+Binding&min=&max=&timeout=20&store=Abebooks&store=AbebooksDE&store=AbebooksFR&store=AbebooksUK&store=Alibris&store=Amazon&store=AmazonCA&store=AmazonUK&store=AmazonDE&store=AmazonFR&store=Antiqbook&store=Biblio&store=Biblion&store=Bibliophile&store=Bibliopoly&store=Booksandcollectibles&store=Half&store=ILAB&store=LivreRareBook&store=Powells&store=Strandbooks&store=ZVAB

I agree that a striaght grip facilitates the use of double triggers. A single trigger allows the use of a pistol or half grip(also known as 'Prince of Wales') and facilitates slightly better control of the gun.
This is a recently completed bespoke Fox 16 gauge by CSMC that I believe Ansley H Fox would have proud of. Single trigger with half grip.-Dick

Nice budrichard!
Galazan does some really fine work.

A shot of my AyA 4/53 28 Ga. with double triggers and straight stock. I also like the way straight stocks carries in the woods. I may have already said this but, with it's weight of about 5 and a half pounds it's like carrying a broom stick.

rumblefish said:

A shot of my AyA 4/53 28 Ga. with double triggers and straight stock. I also like the way straight stocks carries in the woods. I may have already said this but, with it's weight of about 5 and a half pounds it's like carrying a broom stick.

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Lots of lovely shotguns here: it's all a matter of personal taste, of course: but contrary to what appears to be the prevailing taste in grain patterns, I have never been particularly fond of the plum pudding effect of highly grained stocks on a shotgun, preferring straight grain: I think you've got a lovely piece of wood that matches the lines of the gun perfectly there, RF. Congratulations, and shoot straight with it!

Cheers
"Skeet"

The aforementioned 16 gauge Fox weighs 5# 9.1oz on my digital calibrated scale. One of the lightest sxs 16's I know of and lighter than any 28 gauge I have. The target weight was 5# 13oz and CSMC certainly exceeded my expectations. It feels like a 28 gauge in hand.-Dick

Beautiful wood gentlemen. WOW... very nice stocks.

CSMC

Great furniture on the 16,what grade,CE?CSMC doubles are nice reproductions of Ansley`s guns,but the cost yikes!Can`t you buy a "real" Fox for that money?

Straight stocks/Prince of Wales/Pistol grip

I dont` really think it makes a difference,You either have it or not when "pointing" a double gun.It`s in the man behind the gun.I have hunted with people with Purdey`s,Brownings,Grants,and after a day of shooting not one bagged a single bird!After the day was done they were all fussing with their guns wondering how this guy(myself)managed to bag 6 cock birds with an old 12ga Ithaca Flues,pistol grip,F&M 30" barrels & every bit of 7lbs!Some have it some just don`t,no matter how many lessons you took at Orvis`s snobby shooting school in Manchester Vt.

bburtner@moran said:

Great furniture on the 16,what grade,CE?CSMC doubles are nice reproductions of Ansley`s guns,but the cost yikes!Can`t you buy a "real" Fox for that money?

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Grade is DE SPECIAL with exhibition Circassian, everything to my specifications including barrels coated for steel shot.
A CSMC Fox is a continuation of the production Savage stopped in 1946 and is not any different than a Holland, Purdey, Ferrari or Jaguar produced today.
Manufacturing changed all the time as the Fox evolved as with other products and no one ever said that they were/are considered reproductions. In terms of purchasing a Fox manufactured before 1947 or "real" as you term it, As a double gun collector for over 30+ years, especially Winchester Model 21's, (view my website http://www.model21shotgun.com ) these older doubles require a lot of caution when purchasing as many are not original and many have defects not to mention some have almost a century of shooting behind them which is a testement to the Fox design that they still function but must be very carefully measured/inspected to assure safety to shoot. The stock dimensions are invariably not exactly suited to the shooter and CSMC's Fox's are made to your dim's. With the Fox I considered a pre-1947 gun but after having CSMC make two other doubles for me, it was better for me to have exactly what I wanted in a Fox then settle for something that would have been a second choice and not exactly what I wanted. I am not a Fox collector and the gun is not for admiration/collecting but shooting. Frankly I think Ansley would be proud but he left the company many many years ago, well before production stopped in 1946. So, is a Fox made after Ansley left the company a Fox? I think so. The ability of CSMC to produce a 16 gauge of under 6#'s was the final determining factor and the target weight was 5# 13oz and CSMC handily exceeded my expectations. My lightest 16 gauge to this point was a bespoke Bruchet/Darne of 6#'s 0.1oz and I thought that was light. Frankly CSMC is producing some of the finest doubles made today anywhere in the world and manufactured in the USA. With the exchange rate on the EURO, CSMC also represents a much better value than any EURO gun today. In the early part of the 20th century one could have an American gun manufactured to your exact specifications. Tony Galazan at CSMC has revived a lost American art with his bespoke doubles.
I certainly could have purchased just about any other Fox for the cost of thie gun but it would have been someone else's Fox and not my Fox.
Frankly I have come to understand that Dealer's/Collector's have a monetray vested interest in wanting individuals to think that Fox and certain other doubles made to today are 'reproductions' as they make money from this point of view. -Dick

Very True...but....

bburtner@moran said:

I dont` really think it makes a difference,You either have it or not when "pointing" a double gun.It`s in the man behind the gun.

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This is SO true....don't even get me started about choke tubes! I've always shot fixed choke guns, and the amount of mental energy and fiddle-fussing I've seen some expend on arguing about, choosing, and mounting choke tubes--to then miss a target--never ceases to amaze me. Yes, of course: you don't want to go after a distant target with cylinder bore...but really: if you put all your attention on shooting the target....you'd probably stand a better chance of hitting it. That's just one man's opinion, however, and offered as nothing but.

We all "have it" and "don't have it" on given days or shots...but being confident; locking your eyes on the target; and swinging are the most important things. Having said that, however--while it may not be tremendously important, there's nothing wrong (if you're rich enough...) in having a gun that fits you, nor a stock shape that works well for you. Anything that makes it easier to "just shoot" is fine by me

"Skeet"

but contrary to what appears to be the prevailing taste in grain patterns, I have never been particularly fond of the plum pudding effect of highly grained stocks on a shotgun, preferring straight grain:

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Skeet it seems we think alike. One thing that is quite interesting is the current fad for marble cake wood as the "make it or break it" test that marks the quality of a gun. In extremes I've seen fairly roughly finished doubles that sold for more money just because there was a nice piece of walnut onit. More interesting is that in my limited observations that even high quality guns of the "golden age" had by today's standards plain wood. In particular if you look at old Purdeys, Woodwards, etc. Many shotguners today would turn their noses up at "such plain wood." Funny how tastes change.

Chasseur said:

Skeet it seems we think alike...Funny how tastes change.

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Salut Chasseur! Taste varies from individual to individual, and should--but, as you remark, also more broadly across time: although I have a suspicion that a lot of that is herd instinct.

Aesthetics are important--particularly to the sort of fellow who shows up here on the FL. But let's face it: at the end of the day, for those of us who actually SHOOT these things....it's how well you shoot it that matters. I'd rather have the plainest gun in the world that I fully believed would do the job for me when I pulled the trigger than the fanciest gun in the world that just didn't work for me.

I'm honored to be in such good company. You obviously have very, very good taste

A la chasse!

"Skeet"

This was my part of my daily attire for quite a while until I retired in 2001..
nothing fancy....

mikey517 said:

This was my part of my daily attire for quite a while until I retired in 2001..
nothing fancy....

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I'm sure the pistol wasn't too out of the ordinary, but I'll bet the mandolin(?) sure got stares!

My latest: a circa 1923 Colt New Service with a 4 1/2 inch barrel in 38-40 (38 wcf) caliber shown with an older Remington pump rifle of the same caliber and a slightly newer Stetson Imperial.

I'm sure the pistol wasn't too out of the ordinary, but I'll bet the mandolin(?) sure got stares!

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The smileface on Glock got the attention of a humorless Lieutenant.

The instrument is a Martin "Backpacker"...a somewhat unique travel guitar.

Mikey congrats on the retirement. 19 or 23? I carry a 23 on duty here still.