Elle's No Makeup Issue

Lillemor · Apr 17, 2009

I love dolling up but nothing beats the feeling of cleansing my face after a long day.

Men often say they like the natural look but many women have experienced that when they truly go natural, men either assume they're ill or women who usually get noticed become wallflowers. I don't know if they get noticed "for all the wrong reasons" but these women prefer to get noticed. I think what these men are really saying even if they don't know it themselves, is that they prefer to be fooled into believing the woman naturally looks like that. I prefer not to play games.

While the make-up some golden era celebrities wore may seem dramatic by today's "nude" standards, I don't think they manipulated their looks more than modern celebrities. Even if we only talk face and not body modifcating surgery, then I wouldn't be surprised if today's celebrities wear more make-up than they did in the past and that it takes longer to apply today than it did in the past.

If that's not the case, then we may have advanced facial procedures, advanced make-up technology, and digital manipulation to thank for how easily modern celebrities look "stunning" in a "natural" sort of way. Some things are subjective and depend on taste which is why I've put "" around so many words.

Is it just me or do many men naturally have longer lashes than most women? The girls at school and even back in daycare envy my boys long, full, curved lashes. So do I!

I also suspect that modern male celebrities use as much cake as male celebrities in the past. I just think we're able to achieve a more natural look now. But I'm no expert. I don't work in the beauty industry, I don't know much about how digital enhancing works and I don't know anything about traditional photography or filming.

I'm just trying to fool myself into believing that I would've been a natural "beauty" in any era.lol

Viola · Apr 17, 2009

Yes, Lillemor, I think you're onto something, I think the look of today is more nude (or just going for a different effect, like ironed-flat hair vs. immaculately curled hair, glossy/glowing/glimmering finishes over matte) but the level of artifice or effort involved is as strong or stronger than ever.

Plus nifty things surgeons can do with lasers nowadays.

cecil · Apr 17, 2009

Lillemor said:
Men often say they like the natural look but many women have experienced that when they truly go natural, men either assume they're ill or women who usually get noticed become wallflowers.

Exactly what happened to me! Once when i went down the street makeupless, a fellow who had been chasing me for a date said "wow, you look as sh***y as i feel today!". Not very tactful of him. I didn't look awful, I just didn't think it necessary to doll myself up to go and get a coffee and a newspaper. Needless to say, no date for that guy.

I almost like the wallflower effect. It's great when I go shopping, when I look less done-up everybody leaves me alone, but if i'm wearing makeup and something nice every man and his dog is trying to sell me cosmetics or clothes or what have you.

CheshireKat · Apr 17, 2009

cecil said:
Exactly what happened to me! Once when i went down the street makeupless, a fellow who had been chasing me for a date said "wow, you look as sh***y as i feel today!". Not very tactful of him. I didn't look awful, I just didn't think it necessary to doll myself up to go and get a coffee and a newspaper. Needless to say, no date for that guy.

That is just appalling.

cecil said:
I almost like the wallflower effect. It's great when I go shopping, when I look less done-up everybody leaves me alone, but if i'm wearing makeup and something nice every man and his dog is trying to sell me cosmetics or clothes or what have you.

I've noticed this. For cosmetics, toiletries, and clothing especially, salespeople seem to think woman in make-up = consumer; woman without make-up = a hard sell.

People really do react to us in very different ways according to how we're presenting ourselves. There's a great recent account of how a Quaker who'd felt led to adopt plain dress found herself being treated with greater kindness and trust by strangers when she went Plain; I think that it may also have been that she was manifestly being who she is, which people instinctively pick up on.

There are lots of ways make-up and dress can be consciously played with to get specific reactions - and unconsciously directed.

cherry lips · Apr 17, 2009

Here's my beloved Kirsten Dunst sans maquillage:

and other contemporary stars:

Here you can see the beautiful vulnerability Laura's been talking about

I think this is sexy in a Marlon Brando way

If you have pics of stars from the golden era or 50s without make-up, please post them! I loved the pic Smuterella shared with us. I remember someone posting Veronica Lake a while back as well...

Lillemor · Apr 17, 2009

Cecil -

lol I don't know how I should react.

People are nicer when I look like I've put myself together but wear more "natural" make-up like today where my hair's up in a ponytail held by a barette clip and hair is tidy and straight off my face with a slim alice band. I feel pulled together, look it in a modern context and am left alone but people are still politer than usual (usual = colorful, slightly excentric or gothic) when they do have to interact with me.

Kirsten Dunst is one of my icons for facial features, complexion and hair. Another contemporary celebrity whose looks I admire is Cate Blanchett. I like the way people with low complexion/hair contrast can look ethereal with "natural" make-up, if they get it right.

fftopic: I'm only wearing one eye color shadow in green today. But it's from lash to brow.

I also "forgot" the advice about either drawing attention to eyes or lips. My lips are cherry pink.

KittyT · Apr 17, 2009

Lillemor said:
Men often say they like the natural look but many women have experienced that when they truly go natural, men either assume they're ill or women who usually get noticed become wallflowers. I don't know if they get noticed "for all the wrong reasons" but these women prefer to get noticed. I think what these men are really saying even if they don't know it themselves, is that they prefer to be fooled into believing the woman naturally looks like that. I prefer not to play games.

I haven't found that at all, recently. 2 of the last 3 guys that really hit on me while I was out did so when I wasn't dolled up (maybe I had on some mascara). I think some fellas may appreciate the sense of confidence that being out in public un-made-up can exude.

I'm just trying to fool myself into believing that I would've been a natural "beauty" in any era.lol

You would have been!

CheshireKat · Apr 17, 2009

KittyT said:
I haven't found that at all, recently. 2 of the last 3 guys that really hit on me while I was out did so when I wasn't dolled up (maybe I had on some mascara). I think some fellas may appreciate the sense of confidence that being out in public un-made-up can exude.

I think some people are really attracted to people who seem confident and at home in their own skin, whether it has make-up on bits of it or not. Frankly, those are the best of the lot

Lillemor said:
I'm just trying to fool myself into believing that I would've been a natural "beauty" in any era.

If that's your photo, there's no fooling involved.

pigeon toe · Apr 17, 2009

Lillemor said:
I think what these men are really saying even if they don't know it themselves, is that they prefer to be fooled into believing the woman naturally looks like that. I prefer not to play games.

That's definitely an interesting point. Judith Butler wrote that all gender presentation is "drag" in a sense, whether you were born a man and dress like the most butch dude on the block, or you're a man who dresses like a glamorous vixen -- it's both drag. It's not in our biology that determines how we dress or decorate ourselves, it's our outward expression of our gender identity. That's how I would justify my dressing up, wearing girdles and stockings, doing my hair and make-up in such an done-up way -- it was drag, and I was performing my gender in the most obvious way possible.

I think it makes a statement that, "no, I didn't roll out of the bed looking like this, I'm performing for you and women aren't naturally this way". I think to go against the grain of the natural look, if that's your mode of self-expression, is feminist in the sense that it dismantles the idea that women are "naturally" beauty queens. It, like you said, Lilimor, isn't playing games.

I haven't had my coffee yet, so does anyone else get what I'm saying here?

cherry lips · Apr 17, 2009

I applaud your entire post, pigeon toe :eusa_clap

“We’re born naked, and the rest is drag.” - RuPaul

Laura Chase · Apr 17, 2009

pigeon toe said:
I think it makes a statement that, "no, I didn't roll out of the bed looking like this, I'm performing for you and women aren't naturally this way". I think to go against the grain of the natural look, if that's your mode of self-expression, is feminist in the sense that it dismantles the idea that women are "naturally" beauty queens. It, like you said, Lilimor, isn't playing games.

I haven't had my coffee yet, so does anyone else get what I'm saying here?

pigeon toe, I am certainly following you, this is exactly the way I view it too! I read an interview with Dita von Teese where she expressed something much like that. It's the new wave feminism, me thinks.

Marc Chevalier · Apr 17, 2009

Lillemor said:
I think what these men are really saying even if they don't know it themselves, is that they prefer to be fooled into believing the woman naturally looks like that.

I'm not saying that at all, but thanks for the attempt at mind-reading.

.

Carlisle Blues · Apr 17, 2009

Lillemor said:
I think what these men are really saying even if they don't know it themselves, is that they prefer to be fooled into believing the woman naturally looks like that.

Nope, read my previous post. Last thing I want is a glob of mascara in my eye or make up on my very expensive shirts.

Again, when I look into the eyes of the woman I love I see nothing but beauty.

Lillemor · Apr 18, 2009

Are everyone else reading my post as a sweeping generalization about men? It wasn't intended as such and I don't read it that way and I've really read over it several times. I'm sorry if that's how it reads to others.

Great to hear that others are having different thoughts than the men some unfortunate women have encountered and that there are female members who have different experiences from these women.

Marc Chevalier · Apr 18, 2009

Lillemor said:
Are everyone else reading my post as a sweeping generalization about men?

No, no and no: it's a sweeping generalization about "these men," as you put it, who posted in this thread. I am one of "these men" who posted. Your sweeping generalization about me was inaccurate. I can't speak about the other men.

.

Carlisle Blues · Apr 18, 2009

Lillemor said:
Are everyone else reading my post as a sweeping generalization about men? It wasn't intended as such and I don't read it that way and I've really read over it several times. I'm sorry if that's how it reads to others.

Great to hear that others are having different thoughts than the men some unfortunate women have encountered and that there are female members who have different experiences from these women.

It is not a big deal you were talking about Marc anyway. lol lol lol

Marc Chevalier · Apr 18, 2009

Carlisle Blues said:
It is not a big deal you were talking about Marc anyway. lol lol lol

Think so? shakeshead

.

Carlisle Blues · Apr 18, 2009

Marc Chevalier said:
Think so? shakeshead

.

No Marc I don't I was just goofing.

Lareesie Ladavi · Apr 18, 2009

pigeon toe said:
That's definitely an interesting point. Judith Butler wrote that all gender presentation is "drag" in a sense, whether you were born a man and dress like the most butch dude on the block, or you're a man who dresses like a glamorous vixen -- it's both drag. It's not in our biology that determines how we dress or decorate ourselves, it's our outward expression of our gender identity. That's how I would justify my dressing up, wearing girdles and stockings, doing my hair and make-up in such an done-up way -- it was drag, and I was performing my gender in the most obvious way possible.

I think it makes a statement that, "no, I didn't roll out of the bed looking like this, I'm performing for you and women aren't naturally this way". I think to go against the grain of the natural look, if that's your mode of self-expression, is feminist in the sense that it dismantles the idea that women are "naturally" beauty queens. It, like you said, Lilimor, isn't playing games.

I haven't had my coffee yet, so does anyone else get what I'm saying here?

Funny, you mention this, but that's what I consider myself, when I dress up. I call mayself "dragtastic". It's all about the smoke and mirrors.

Lareesie Ladavi · Apr 18, 2009

cherry lips said:
Here's my beloved Kirsten Dunst sans maquillage:

and other contemporary stars:

Here you can see the beautiful vulnerability Laura's been talking about

I think this is sexy in a Marlon Brando way

If you have pics of stars from the golden era or 50s without make-up, please post them! I loved the pic Smuterella shared with us. I remember someone posting Veronica Lake a while back as well...

They look very natural...it's candid photos. You can see the difference between these and the magazine spread.
Of course, I think these famous people have to look somewhat good without the makeup though.
Jessica Simpson looks like some of the stoner chicks, that I knew in school.

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