I'm tired of the "bad economy".

Miss Neecerie · Apr 30, 2009

Undertow said:
Now when comparing our economy to those around the world, there’s simply no comparison; that’s beyond apples and oranges – it’s apples to Intel Processors.

Not to nitpick.....well ok...I am nitpicking.....

These days...Apples use Intel processors.

I think that makes it an Apples to Apples comparison. lol

Tiller · Apr 30, 2009

I've found that most people that complain about other peoples "blatant materialism" (such as my mother), are usually the ones with the most stuff in their homes and food on their plates. In my personal experience people who have more tend to scuff at, and complain about others who are trying to "make it" themselves. One of the most annoying things I have ever heard anyone complain about is "All she/he care about is money!", well that's easy to say when you have money yourself [huh]. Another thing that annoys me is how someone who is trying to make something of themselves are "betraying their class" (or "roots"), because they don't want to live like their father. People tend to be annoyed at anyone who tries to be different.

Most people I know who work extra jobs, and save what they have are either doing it to make ends meet, or in order to have something nice for themselves "one day", and I've seen people (both poorer and richer) basically annoyed at such people for doing it, for no other reason then it's "selfish"! Saving up money to buy your daughter that special birthday gift? Well that's being greedy! She shouldn't expect so much! Saving up money to go on vacation out of the county? What will the neighbors think!? During a "Depression", who do they think they are! Saving up money so you can pay cash for things, well now your just trying to be better then everyone else!
One of my friends worked two jobs for over a year, so he could save up enough money to have a boat that he could pay for in cash. After he got it a lot of my other friends gave crap to him for being so "greedy", and "not appreciating what he has". As if working harder to get something means you don't like what you already have.:eusa_doh:

My Grandfather is the first guy in my family who really "made it". I grew up hearing his stories about the Depression where he was pulping trees for $1.50 a week, and "thought he had the world by the tail", to the time when he opened his logging company well working on the farm. I've heard of the people who belittled him for working multiple jobs, and for trying to make himself and his family better off then he was as a child. My Grandfather was a boy when his father died, and a teen when his mother followed, and the first thing he told me was he learned to help people when he could, but not to care what they think. As contradictory as that may sound I think he understood that many people can become jealous of others, and don't like people who act differently then they do. My Grandfather helped people his entire life, but he didn't allow them to run one second of it. "Don't expect a hand out, go out there and do a good job."

I've heard the stories of people in the past going hungry, and I've seen the people who go hungry today. So, when I hear people complain about the sky rocketing cost of cell phone bills, or how bad it is that cloths at the mall are more expensive I just have to roll my eyes. As long as you have food on the table, clothes on your back, and a roof other your head, you got it pretty good, and there is no reason to dramatize where you are in life. Work hard, don't go into debt over stupid things, be smart with your purchasing power, and you'll be fine.

Undertow · Apr 30, 2009

Tiller said:
I've found that most people that complain about other peoples "blatant materialism" (such as my mother), are usually the ones with the most stuff in their homes and food on their plates. In my personal experience people who have more tend to scuff at, and complain about others who are trying to "make it" themselves. One of the most annoying things I have ever heard anyone complain about is "All she/he care about is money!", well that's easy to say when you have money yourself [huh]. Another thing that annoys me is how someone who is trying to make something of themselves are "betraying their class" (or "roots"), because they don't want to live like their father. People tend to be annoyed at anyone who tries to be different.

Most people I know who work extra jobs, and save what they have are either doing it to make ends meet, or in order to have something nice for themselves "one day", and I've seen people (both poorer and richer) basically annoyed at such people for doing it, for no other reason then it's "selfish"! Saving up money to buy your daughter that special birthday gift? Well that's being greedy! She shouldn't expect so much! Saving up money to go on vacation out of the county? What will the neighbors think!? During a "Depression", who do they think they are! Saving up money so you can pay cash for things, well now your just trying to be better then everyone else!
One of my friends worked two jobs for over a year, so he could save up enough money to have a boat that he could pay for in cash. After he got it a lot of my other friends gave crap to him for being so "greedy", and "not appreciating what he has". As if working harder to get something means you don't like what you already have.:eusa_doh:

My Grandfather is the first guy in my family who really "made it". I grew up hearing his stories about the Depression where he was pulping trees for $1.50 a week, and "thought he had the world by the tail", to the time when he opened his logging company well working on the farm. I've heard of the people who belittled him for working multiple jobs, and for trying to make himself and his family better off then he was as a child. My Grandfather was a boy when his father died, and a teen when his mother followed, and the first thing he told me was he learned to help people when he could, but not to care what they think. As contradictory as that may sound I think he understood that many people can become jealous of others, and don't like people who act differently then they do. My Grandfather helped people his entire life, but he didn't allow them to run one second of it. "Don't expect a hand out, go out there and do a good job."

I've heard the stories of people in the past going hungry, and I've seen the people who go hungry today. So, when I hear people complain about the sky rocketing cost of cell phone bills, or how bad it is that cloths at the mall are more expensive I just have to roll my eyes. As long as you have food on the table, clothes on your back, and a roof other your head, you got it pretty good, and there is no reason to dramatize where you are in life. Work hard, don't go into debt over stupid things, be smart with your purchasing power, and you'll be fine.

And at the very least, you'll have dignity and self-respect, I might add. :eusa_clap

just_me · Apr 30, 2009

Viola said:
I don't know, when you don't have groceries or heat in winter when there's snow, and you're afraid of losing the house, its tough no matter how hard your grandparents had it.

For that matter, not everyone has seen generational upward mobility.

Well put.

Just because people in an earlier time had it rough, doesn't make anyone who is suffering now feel any better or suffer any less.

Slim Portly · Apr 30, 2009

just_me said:
Just because people in an earlier time had it rough, doesn't make anyone who is suffering now feel any better or suffer any less.

Yes, it does. I know these things, and it makes me feel better. At one time I lived in my van. I have worked three jobs at a time, two of which were full time. I won't bore anyone with the details, but I dare say that I've had it as hard as anyone else here, and at all times I counted my blessings and I was thankful that I never had it as bad as those who came before me.

HarpPlayerGene · May 1, 2009

Once again, thanks to all who are chiming in.

And once again, I really didn't mean to distract you with the side point about earlier generations.

What I mean specifically is many people think that it is only a "good" economy when we are all maxing out credit cards, entering into mortgages and watching paper fortunes being fabricated on investment statements and in inflated values of homes and businesses.

Again, yes, for one who is unemployed it is bad. But for the talking heads, the leaders, the experts (all still employed and leading the cheer for a return to the "good") I think they encourage people to be unrealistic about what "good" and "bad" is in a an economy. In an economy - not in an individual's employment status. Understand what I mean?

Slim Portly · May 1, 2009

Herr Hitman said:
This whole thread is dripping with politics.

Mmmmmm... nope.

tempestbella42 · May 1, 2009

Slim Portly said:
Mmmmmm... nope.

Ive just read the whole thread and totally agree with Slim !!
no mention at all of it!

scotrace · May 1, 2009

Herr Hitman said:
This whole thread is dripping with politics.

If it were, it'd be shuttered. And it ain't, so it ain't.

Mr. Paladin · May 1, 2009

I never post in Observation Bar, BUT I will make an exception on this one. I completely agree with Gene and Slim. Anything else I could say, WOULD venture into current politics, so I won't.

Undertow · May 1, 2009

HarpPlayerGene said:
Once again, thanks to all who are chiming in.

And once again, I really didn't mean to distract you with the side point about earlier generations.

What I mean specifically is many people think that it is only a "good" economy when we are all maxing out credit cards, entering into mortgages and watching paper fortunes being fabricated on investment statements and in inflated values of homes and businesses.

Again, yes, for one who is unemployed it is bad. But for the talking heads, the leaders, the experts (all still employed and leading the cheer for a return to the "good") I think they encourage people to be unrealistic about what "good" and "bad" is in a an economy. In an economy - not in an individual's employment status. Understand what I mean?

I do see your point, thank you for clarifying (not that it wasn't clear to begin with, I'm just one slow cat)!

Carlisle Blues · May 1, 2009

HarpPlayerGene said:
What I mean specifically is many people think that it is only a "good" economy when we are all maxing out credit cards, entering into mortgages and watching paper fortunes being fabricated on investment statements and in inflated values of homes and businesses.

Again, yes, for one who is unemployed it is bad. But for the talking heads, the leaders, the experts (all still employed and leading the cheer for a return to the "good") I think they encourage people to be unrealistic about what "good" and "bad" is in a an economy. In an economy - not in an individual's employment status. Understand what I mean?

Thanks for starting this thread Gene. From my perspective the US and many other economies are based on the "mixed capitalism" model. As such, the economy is manipulated by adjusting intrest rates, aiding corporations, and providing social programs such as welfare/federal assistance, for example.

The "mixed capitalism" model can only be accomplished by the cooperation of many different entities in the public and private sectors. A true symbiotic relationship is formed; like that formed between Venture Capitalists and Entrepreneurs, for example.

In doing the public is told to use credit cards, borrow against their homes and the next great financial risk to take.

I support your opinion that we have been "instructed" that a good economy is one where you do the aforementioned. That is simply being bullish on the economy. It keeps things going; for example for every trade on the stock market - a commission gets paid, the support staff is assured that their pay checks will be covered. The company who's stock was traded, hopefully, will become more valuable and the person who purchased the stock will get a dividend.

Unfortunately, when the very essence of the market which is trust and judgment has been compromised by the mortgage industry(sub prime lenders) mortgage brokers, Wall street etc. then we wind up where we are right now. In a state of total confusion and insurmountable debt. [huh]

Diamondback · May 2, 2009

I think this bit of old country-folk wisdom bears remembering:
"There is always a worse road than the one you're traveling on."

Bottom line, no matter how bad you think you have it (or may actually so), there is always somebody out there who has it unbelievably worse off.

Slim Portly · May 2, 2009

Herr Hitman said:
Hey alright, way to be a jerk! Thank you for the condescension.

Wow, someone needs a hug. lol

Herr Hitman said:
Many of these statements on the economy are saturated with political bias... So, keep up the political discussion people, as it is impossible to express many opinions on anything without being political!

It seems that you are the only one discussing politics, which really isn't welcome here. You may wish to use Google or another search engine to find a forum to discuss politics. I'm sure there are a few out there if you look.

Herr Hitman said:
That is assuming the moderator is infallible.

Our moderators (we call them "bartenders" here) may not be infallible, but I know one way you can test them to see how much silliness they will tolerate. I'll let you figure it out.

AtomicEraTom · May 2, 2009

There's nothing wrong with living thriftily. I wear clothes from Goodwill, Saint Vinnies, and the Clearanace Rack at K-Mart. My Station Wagon was 500 bucks. I grocery shop with coupons and buy on sale all the time. My friends look at me funny when they go somewhere with me and I pull coupons out of my wallet. But hey, I'm saving a buck or two here and there and it adds up in the end.

Rachael · May 2, 2009

in the vein of getting a bit of perspective on what 'down and out' actual means, I do get frustrated by those who bemoan their current states while enjoying luxuries. One specific instance is an aquaintance who is unemployed yet still makes money as a freelance, and enjoys her cable tv/internet. As a single mom who has made many tough decisions and trimmings, it is difficult to sympathize with her.
I do consider myself fortunate to have a roof over my head and clothing for my children, but that doesn't lessen the difficulty of explaining why dinners are sparse or holidays no longer come with presents. The lasting lessons will be about making do, which is something I admire in previous generations, but that does not make learning the lesson any easier to watch.

HarpPlayerGene · May 2, 2009

With one obvious exception, great contributions to this thread the last couple days. Especially Carlisle Blues. What a perfect explanation. I appreciate the input from you folks.

Diamondback · May 2, 2009

The other thing that helps is to look at your organizational memberships and what discounts they can get. AAA? You'd be surprised how many places still give a AAA discount. Student with school ID? Look for places with student discounts...

----------------
Now playing: Jesper Kyd - Main Title
via FoxyTunes

Carlisle Blues · May 2, 2009

HarpPlayerGene said:
With one obvious exception, great contributions to this thread the last couple days. Especially Carlisle Blues. What a perfect explanation. I appreciate the input from you folks.

Thanks Gene this is a great topic. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap However, it is unfortunate to see how one errant poster can derail the thread for a bit.

People here have a lot pertinent things to say.

I'm tired of the "bad economy".

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