Formal Wear Primer

Chasseur · Feb 6, 2010

Dress studs

A small, but critical part of formal wear are the dress studs and cufflinks. I really love collecting old stud and cufflink sets.

My Krementz Black tie set:

My Swank White tie set:

My Krementz White Tie Set:

TWLyon · Feb 10, 2010

My rig

Here's my white tie kit from Reenactor Fest thsi last weekend with a couple of the other swells. Vintage coat, trousers, waistcoat, shoes and studs.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?p...p?pid=255859&id=1835626554&fbid=1127258321739

draws · Feb 10, 2010

TWLyon said:
Here's my white tie kit from Reenactor Fest thsi last weekend with a couple of the other swells. Vintage coat, trousers, waistcoat, shoes and studs.

Can't see it. Where to go?

TWLyon · Feb 10, 2010

Hm, not sure. I'll try reposting it from another site.

TWLyon · Feb 10, 2010

Try this one

I always seem to have a problem posting the photos....I put on my avatar for now.

Macheath · Feb 12, 2010

Orgetorix said:
Sorry...even I can't defend a notch lapel on a tailcoat. :eusa_doh:

IMO, Charlie Huang's sentiment above about the width of the notch lapel (a wider one creating a more dramatic triangular form, similar to the effect of peaks) counts for tailcoats as well as DJs. (I think you also echoed his sentiment)

I've seen a notch lapel that was wide enough and with a notch that was close to being parallel to the floor (looking almost like a peak), and it actually looked quite decent (though still not as smart as peaks).

This was on our symphony conductor, who I thought looked smart in full dress with one exception: he wasn't wearing any waist covering. I would have forgiven even a white cummerbund then (which I have also seen with full dress).

Bird's One View · Feb 12, 2010

Macheath said:
I've seen a notch lapel that was wide enough and with a notch that was close to being parallel to the floor (looking almost like a peak), and it actually looked quite decent (though still not as smart as peaks).

I'm no expert but I wouldn't call what you describe a notch lapel.

Notch lapel, for me, means the top edge of the lapel is a straight continuation of the gorge line (the seam connecting the lapel and collar). Anything else is ... something else.

Marc Chevalier · Feb 12, 2010

Bird's One View said:
I'm no expert but I wouldn't call what you describe a notch lapel.

Agreed. It sounds more like a modified fishmouth lapel.

.

dakotanorth · Feb 12, 2010

Tuxedos, white with black, but what about...

Black with white?
Anyone have a photo of black tuxedo jackets being worn with white (off-white) pants? I'm wondering if this reversal works, or if I need to find black pants to work with the black tuxedo jacket....

dhermann1 · Feb 12, 2010

Brace yourself

DN, I think you can expect a torrent of negative opinions on this. I'm trying to visualize it. I've never seen anything like that, and it's probably for a reason.

anon` · Feb 12, 2010

dhermann1 said:
DN, I think you can expect a torrent of negative opinions on this. I'm trying to visualize it. I've never seen anything like that, and it's probably for a reason.

We've probably all seen something akin to that with suit-level summar attire (white flannel trousers and a navy blazer, say) but the effect is quite casual, and I rather doubt that it would really lend itself over to formal attire.

dhermann1 · Feb 12, 2010

Yes, but that's a very different thing. But a good point. I just can't see a black dinner jacket, black bow tie, and any kind of white trousers. Hey, somebody, surprise me!

avedwards · Feb 12, 2010

dhermann1 said:
Yes, but that's a very different thing. But a good point. I just can't see a black dinner jacket, black bow tie, and any kind of white trousers. Hey, somebody, surprise me!

I knew I'd read somewhere on the Black Tie Guide website that this look was acceptable for certain occaisions. It looks as if this was done post-WW2 in informal summer settings. I couldn't find a picture of this exact look but here's the description:

dinner jackets as for town when weather is not too hot OR coats of white linen or light serge, also white, with the usual black evening trousers OR white linen suits OR for dances many younger men wear white flannel trousers with stiff shirt and collar and black dinner jacket (Vogue’s Book of Etiquette)

Lokar · Feb 12, 2010

Agreed, no.

Plus, how are you going to find white trousers with a satin stripe, anyway? You can't just use any old trousers, surely...

I'd seriously recommend finding trousers that match. Also make sure your jacket is black, not midnight blue (take it out in sunlight to make sure - midnight blue will appear black in artificial light).

dakotanorth · Feb 12, 2010

You guys all confirmed my suspicions- thanks.
I ask because I stumbled across a great tuxedo jacket on a website- of course, no pants to be found. The one complication, which is actually a REALLY nice touch: The jacket is actually a black herringbone wool....

Chasseur · Feb 13, 2010

Flusser has an illustration that he cites from Esquire that has a gent in a black DB dinner jacket with white trousers for Palm Beach tropical formal wear on page 253 of "Dressing the Man." I'm no expert on whether people did this on a large scale or not, but just wanted to point out I've seen that look before.

dhermann1 · Feb 13, 2010

Yes! But!!! In a dinner jacket/tux type outfit, the trousers don't have to match the jacket! So get the jacket, and then find some pants that look nice with it, i.e. have a comparable weight material. As long as they're both the same degree of blackness, you're cool.

Tomasso · Feb 13, 2010

dhermann1 said:
In a dinner jacket/tux type outfit, the trousers don't have to match the jacket!

That's news to me.

Macheath · Feb 13, 2010

Marc Chevalier said:
Agreed. It sounds more like a modified fishmouth lapel.
.

I suppose I'm just not doing it any justice with my description, but I'm certain it wasn't a fishmouth lapel. The lapel's top edge was indeed a straight continuation of the gorge line, which was simply at a less acute angle than usually seen.

Cobden · Feb 15, 2010

dhermann1 said:
Yes, but that's a very different thing. But a good point. I just can't see a black dinner jacket, black bow tie, and any kind of white trousers. Hey, somebody, surprise me!

Quote from a book, but no pictures I'm afraid. This is detailing original accounts from the Raj, in this case the sea journey or the Penisular and Orient liners, originally recalled by a chap who called Norman Watney who was on his way to a job with the Indian Stater Railways (as relayed here by Charles Allen in "Plain Tales of the British Empire"). He travelled in 1925

"As the voyage progressed it was also observed that 'evening dress was not now just plain black. Some were wearing black trousers with white dinner jackets, some were wearing the opposite. Enquiries soon revealed that the more important clubs in India had their own ideas of what should be worn. For instance, it seemed that the Punjab Club members must wear white jackets and black trousers, and Calcutta Club members black coats and white trousers, and so on. All this struck us as rather peculiar at the time because we [those on the lower social strata of the British in India] had neither"

I strongly suspect such trousers would be cotton (perhaps linen) rather then wool, without any satin

The same book also has a rather interesting passage about cummerbunds for those going to Africa

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