A-2 jackets -- what constitutes 'authentic' ?

Dudleydoright · Apr 6, 2010

First off, most WW2 vets wouldn't know a good/accurate repro from a bad 'in, let alone from a genuine WW2 issue one. That's the amusing irony and shows how little interest they had in their jackets.

I kinda agree with Tonypaj about the appearance of A-2's : to me they look best proportioned when laid flat rather than worn.

Remember, when we think of A-2's back in the day, they were worn with all the swagger of youth and to us, all the glamour of their profession and the dark times they were in. Not to mention the cut of the clothing of the day with higher waisted trousers.

Nowadays, when we see A-2's being worn, it is mostly by men over 30, looking somewhat more self conscious, with less swagger and in lower waisted trousers than the original wearers. Go figure !!!

Despite all that, I've had a love hate thing with A-2's going back to my first in the late 80's with a Sefton that was better than I appreciated at the time. My latest is an Eastman Cable in goat that I like how it looks on me. What the world thinks of how I look, I could care less !!

Dave

aswatland · Apr 6, 2010

Although the majority of A2s were worn by young men in the War, there are plenty of pictures of middle-aged USAAF officers sporting A2s. However there are few Wartime pictures of over weight guys in A2s!

Doctor Strange · Apr 6, 2010

Re what the old-timers remember...

As I'm sure I've mentioned here before, when I presented my dad (who had already enlisted in the Army Air Corps before Pearl Harbor, though he was a technician and photographer, not flight crew) with a low-budg Bradley Associates replica A-2 back in 2001, he pronounced it "Exactly like the ones my flyboy buddies had!" To him, the wrong kind of leather, synthetic knits, modern YKK zipper, too big pockets and collar, etc., didn't matter - it was a real WWII flight jacket.

It goes to show, you can't really go by what the old veterans recall...

Dad in his Bradley A-2 last year (he's now 90!):

And wearing one of his buddy's jackets back in 1943:

jeep44 · Apr 7, 2010

That's how they are supposed to look to me. Like another poster said, they should be worn with the proper trousers-wearing an A2 with blue jeans is just wrong,and never looks good. Some guys make it worse by wearing sneakers or some other type of soft walking shoe with them. And finally, a flat belly makes any A2 look more authentic.

Smithy · Apr 7, 2010

aswatland said:
It's not age which is the problem with wearing A2s today but the size of the girth.

I think you've nailed it Andrew. A-2s are very unforgiving on the wrong body type. They have a tendency to look awful on chaps who are on the chubby side and look less than flattering by accentuating a big gut.

In terms of the authentic thing. In my eyes there is no such thing as an authentic repro. Once again I'm with Andrew here, there is only authenticity with an original but you can get an accurate repro.

Silver Dollar · Apr 7, 2010

The way I see it, I may be chubby, but I'm still gonna wear my A2's.

442RCT · Apr 7, 2010

It's The Law !

I agree with the posters about A-2 fit...I think they should outlaw A-2's larger than sz 44 !!! If they're over sz 44 they HAVE to be cut in military trim fit, no more blousey A-2s!!!! If you're caught wearing an A-2, G-1, cafe racer, etc.,with your gut hanging over your belt, the style police should give you a ticket with a fine that you go on a diet and exercise. !!!!

Speedbird · Apr 7, 2010

^^^^ lol I have changed my mind about coming to visit you - you probably have salad with your steaks ... I am going to hang out with Silver Dollar instead .... more beer and burgers!!!! lol lol lol

Atticus Finch · Apr 7, 2010

442RCT said:
I agree with the posters about A-2 fit...I think they should outlaw A-2's larger than sz 44 !!! If they're over sz 44 they HAVE to be cut in military trim fit, no more blousey A-2s!!!! If you're caught wearing an A-2, G-1, cafe racer, etc.,with your gut hanging over your belt, the style police should give you a ticket with a fine that you go on a diet and exercise. !!!!

Well...I highly resemble your remark. But please remember that fat, old guys like to wear leather, too. After all, when you reach your mid-fifties, there's just so little else that's fun...

**Disclaimer...this photo of me was taken several years ago at the zenith of a severe phat-phase.

AF

Speedbird · Apr 7, 2010

We should have started out this thread by defining authentic:

'Authentic' is an adjective and it means "known to be real; genuine" and therefore precludes repros of any particular contract purporting to be from an historical date. It is not possible to describe a high end named/dated contract copy as 'authentic'.

However, any modern made jacket with the basic features of A-2 (I mean those broad features generally considered to define the A-2 type; not every last single detail) that does not claim to be anything other than an A-2 style jacket made recently can be described as 'authentic' if the language is used and understood correctly.

"Authentically" is an adverb and if used thus: " authentically made", it would correctly describe a high end highly accurate modern replica if accurate materials and processes were used in its manufacture. This could be scaled with a system of points or stars - .e.g.

" jacket A is 4/5 stars authentically made whereas jacket B is 2/5 stars authentically made."

Therefore, a no brand cheap monstrosity could be described 'authentic' but not 'authetically' made and a high end specific copy the reverse.

It could also be said that the high end makers producing generic A-2's with some modern conveniences and/or a combination of features pulling together the best elements of the originals are actually authentically making authentic jackets.

Best of all, a modern jacket with good useful features and solid construction from good materials at a reasonable cost and in large volume potentially is the most authentic of all.

Cats? Pidgeons? I know

And yes, it is semantics - but since this thread is about the use of the word 'authentic' we best be sure of the meaning and use of the word.

Dudleydoright · Apr 7, 2010

Ok, OK, so i've misused the word 'authentic' !! Shoot me !

Please strike authentic from the record and replace with accurate ...............

Dave

Speedbird · Apr 7, 2010

I don't think you have Dave. I think your actual question of what constitutes authentic is spot on.

Changing it to "what constitutes an accurate repro A-2?" is a whole other can of worms!

Fletch · Apr 7, 2010

442RCT said:
I agree with the posters about A-2 fit...I think they should outlaw A-2's larger than sz 44 !!! If they're over sz 44 they HAVE to be cut in military trim fit, no more blousey A-2s!!!!

Then again, maybe "military trim fit" is a relative term. Your average army pilot was much older before WW2 than during, and missing some of the leanness and swagger of youth. How do these guys from 1934 look to you?

I think they look damn good - maybe not dashing, but daring, casually confident and ready for anything (including layering if it gets a little nippy). And blousing seems to have been well nigh compulsory at the time.

Silver Dollar · Apr 8, 2010

Speedbird said:
^^^^ lol I have changed my mind about coming to visit you - you probably have salad with your steaks ... I am going to hang out with Silver Dollar instead .... more beer and burgers!!!! lol lol lol

I can't drink the beers but the burgers sound great. O.K., I have to step in here and do some schoolin'. We had this same thing happen at an airbase I was stationed at. First of all, not everyone has the good fortune to be able to stay trim and slim. Even though we may have some figure irregularities, we deserve love also. Therefore, I proclaim on this day that if you can close the jacket and not bust the zipper, you're allowed to wear an A2 even if the shoulders are a bit blousey. I also proclaim that there should be no fines levied or forced labor policies.

Besides, the leather jacket even way back when wasn't devised for the dashing look of the aviator. It was devised because unlike cloth flying jackets, leather doesn't soak up gasoline or oil. I guess when the B-10 came out, getting torched wasn't such a problem anymore. [huh]

442RCT · Apr 8, 2010

For dinner last night, the Mrs. didn't feel like cooking, so we went to an all you can eat buffet. I always feel like I ought'a get my monies worth so I eat a lot...which is so much I'm bloated enough to barf. For breakfast I had a slice of raspberry cheesecake, for dinner tonight I had a Canadian bacon, pineapple & jalapeno pizza. When I was discharged from the army, I weighed 135 lbs. I now weigh 146 lbs. [huh] If I were to gain too much weight, how would I fit into my 20 or 30 A-2 jackets ????:eusa_doh:

Silver Dollar · Apr 8, 2010

You'd get into those jackets with one good burp. lol lol :eusa_clap

Atticus Finch · Apr 8, 2010

442RCT said:
When I was discharged from the army, I weighed 135 lbs. I now weigh 146 lbs.

I once weighed 146 lbs...I think I was twelve years old.

AF

Dudleydoright · Apr 8, 2010

Atticus Finch said:
I once weighed 146 lbs...I think I was twelve years old.

AF

so there is someone out there who is actually smaller than the spanish midget ? lol

Dave

A-2 jackets -- what constitutes 'authentic' ?

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