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Marc mndt

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Interesting. I think the internet and the ongoing quest for authenticity though consumer goods has resulted in many people seeing things and looking for things that mostly were not really noticed before. Even a by-product of photographing everything has resulted in us all becoming more detail obsessed.

My old custom leather jackets made in the 1980's and 1990's were well made, solid, heirloom items but there was no cult of artisanal craftsmanship around them back then. The jackets were hand made and heavy and had some uneven stitching and the odd mistake. It wasn't really thought to look closely at these things back then because we hadn't really fetishised jackets (and so many other goods) to this point yet. They also weren't as expensive.

Manufacturing quality, small details and the quest for perfection in execution are all something much more in evidence these days. Do I care that my 1980's leather jacket has a crooked seam? Not really. But I might these days if I were to buy a new one, because we've have been trained to look for perfect details. I would also have to pay over $1000 for a new jacket which I probably won't bother doing.

The custom jackets you bought in the 80s and 90s were probably more necessity goods than luxury goods. They were purpose built. The jackets we discuss here today are luxury goods.

It's like comparing a Michelin Star dinner with a dinner at the local bistro. With the former, the presentation of the food is hugely important. At your bistro, not to that extend.

I don't think the internet made us more detail focused. The internet did create a (global) market for non-fashionbrand luxury goods like the jackets we discuss here. Before the internet, Himel or FL would not have a viable business model because they could only sell locally (with local demand for luxury jackets being too small to run a business)

Before the days of the internet we were also obsessed with details. But those details could not be found in your locally made jacket. They could be found in garments made by world wide operating (haute couture) businesses like Monsieur Christian Dior, Yves Saint Laurent or what have you.
 

Seb Lucas

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7,573
Location
Australia
The custom jackets you bought in the 80s and 90s were probably more necessity goods than luxury goods. They were purpose built. The jackets we discuss here today are luxury goods.

It's like comparing a Michelin Star dinner with a dinner at the local bistro. With the former, the presentation of the food is hugely important. At your bistro, not to that extend.

I don't think the internet made us more detail focused. The internet did create a (global) market for non-fashionbrand luxury goods like the jackets we discuss here. Before the internet, Himel or FL would not have a viable business model because they could only sell locally (with local demand for luxury jackets being too small to run a business)

Before the days of the internet we were also obsessed with details. But those details could not be found in your locally made jacket. They could be found in garments made by world wide operating (haute couture) businesses like Monsieur Christian Dior, Yves Saint Laurent or what have you.

I just responded but changed my mind; the thread will get clogged with irrelevancies (by me).
 

Justhandguns

Practically Family
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764
Location
London
Not really. But I might these days if I were to buy a new one, because we've have been trained to look for perfect details. I would also have to pay over $1000 for a new jacket which I probably won't bother doing.

Exactly! This is exactly the crux. Do I care that my Bronson B-10 has uneven pockets? Yes, a bit, but I only paid USD60 for it. If this happens on the Real McCoy B10, I would certainly return it.

Many of the makers here are small workshops where machinist can definitely be located and held accountable for the mistakes and yet the machinists still pass the flawed goods on.
As said, it depends on the type of "mistake" or "flaw", many of these "flaws" are deliberate or immediately noticeable and yet these products are passed on without even a note or warning to the buyer.

Yes, small productions or independent craftsmen (best represented in Japanese, 職人, 匠人) seems to be both the selling point as well as the root of some (or many) of the complaints in our jacket world, particularly the one man operations. From what I've seen in this forum as well as the VLJ forum, John Chapman is, by far, the most consistent in making perfect jackets as an one man band based on the number of 'complaints' here. Which may also means that his products justify the prices that he is asking for. The main issue for small workshops is that they sometimes think they can't afford to 'reject' flaw products. But that should be taken into account of the costs as well, and trying to spin it into some like 'period correct' or 'deliberately uneven', these are not the excuses. Some have done it correctly, like Aero's apprentice jackets and John's test jackets. For those who are into shoes and boots, if you are ordering a custom pair from a premium maker, you don't expect to have unmatched hides on the two sides right? And finally, since some of these brands are actively reading our posts (and complaints) online, I do hope that they listen and improve.
 

Blackadder

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Exactly! This is exactly the crux. Do I care that my Bronson B-10 has uneven pockets? Yes, a bit, but I only paid USD60 for it. If this happens on the Real McCoy B10, I would certainly return it.



Yes, small productions or independent craftsmen (best represented in Japanese, 職人, 匠人) seems to be both the selling point as well as the root of some (or many) of the complaints in our jacket world, particularly the one man operations. From what I've seen in this forum as well as the VLJ forum, John Chapman is, by far, the most consistent in making perfect jackets as an one man band based on the number of 'complaints' here. Which may also means that his products justify the prices that he is asking for. The main issue for small workshops is that they sometimes think they can't afford to 'reject' flaw products. But that should be taken into account of the costs as well, and trying to spin it into some like 'period correct' or 'deliberately uneven', these are not the excuses. Some have done it correctly, like Aero's apprentice jackets and John's test jackets. For those who are into shoes and boots, if you are ordering a custom pair from a premium maker, you don't expect to have unmatched hides on the two sides right? And finally, since some of these brands are actively reading our posts (and complaints) online, I do hope that they listen and improve.
I understand to err is human. The point I am trying to make is own up to the mistake immediately and inform the customers asap not simply ship it out and wait for the customers to complain about it then pretends it is overlooked. How can the machinist overlook when he/she was clearly not sewing in a straight line not to mention those empty stitch holes when he/she ran out of thread or broke the thread and had to restart.
 

handymike

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9,598
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SoCal
Running out of thread is really frustrating, especially when it’s the bobbin underneath and you don’t notice right away.
There must be a way to go back using the same holes to correct this without having to re-make the whole thing...or am I wrong? It would be super-costly to throw out panels of leather just because of a few holes.
My only experience is with my little home machine. Maybe the bigger commercial ones allow for a large spool of bobbin thread.
 

Blackadder

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3,211
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China
Running out of thread is really frustrating, especially when it’s the bobbin underneath and you don’t notice right away.
There must be a way to go back using the same holes to correct this without having to re-make the whole thing...or am I wrong? It would be super-costly to throw out panels of leather just because of a few holes.
My only experience is with my little home machine. Maybe the bigger commercial ones allow for a large spool of bobbin thread.
Yes it happens and it is frustrating. All the more reason to notify the customers asap so they can make their informed decision and thereby possibly minimize the processing time.
 

Cyber Lip

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670
Location
Seattle
Yes, all rectification of an issue should be done 1st and privately with the maker. Personally, I'd be worried my results might be less than they'd otherwise be if I outed the person publicly first. Of course it shouldn't make a diff, but you never know how crappy and vindictive some people can be
 
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navetsea

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5,838
Location
East Java
even pleather mall jacket don't have this kind of
Running out of thread is really frustrating, especially when it’s the bobbin underneath and you don’t notice right away.
There must be a way to go back using the same holes to correct this without having to re-make the whole thing...or am I wrong? It would be super-costly to throw out panels of leather just because of a few holes.
My only experience is with my little home machine. Maybe the bigger commercial ones allow for a large spool of bobbin thread.
I read somewhere industrial sewing machine don't use bobbin, both sides fed from outside thread spools ( i don't know how that works) , tshirt sewing machine, chain stitch machine, and edge finisher don't use one too, maybe that's the practical reason why jeans are/ were sewn with it, but perhaps even one with bobbin if the person is doing these project enough time they probably can calculate how much he should spool the bobbin for one project, and make a habit to spool just enough again for every new project since making individual jacket they would change color of the thread too. I think one of my jacket have a stop and go moment on the front panel, but it just look like one or two last stitches have double thread and go on single thread again, really have to bring the jacket to my nose to see at least when sewn in tonal color thread.

I almost wonder why leather is not sewn with tshirt/ underwear sewing machine since it can stretch along since it looks
ZIZIZIZIZIZIZIZIZIZIZIZIZIZIZ
from the back and won't break stitches, but it has double needle and make double rows stitches on top may will look bad alone but when paired with french style seam it might look neat, but probably hard to repair when broken or need alterations.
 
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Edward

Bartender
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23,131
Location
London, UK
Yes, all rectification of an issue should be done 1st and privately with the maker. Personally, I'd be worried my results might be less than they'd otherwise be if I outed the person publicly first. Of course it shouldn't make a diff, but you never know how crappy and vindictive some people can be

To be fair, that can also cut both ways; I have seen on one or two occasions online a case where a customer pursued a bit of a vendetta against a company for not acquiescing to an unreasonable demand. But yeah, even from a purely selfish pov it makes sense to play nice with someone when you want the company to help you - banging the desk and threatening to badmouth them online (I've seen this in action in business) and then expecting them to help and be nice is a bit on the daft side!
 

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