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A barf worthy rip off of an appropriated pattern

El Marro

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What does reverse vanity-sizing mean? That's a new term for me.
Reverse vanity sizing is putting a larger size tag on a jacket with smaller measurements, For example: the size 46 jacket in this thread has a chest measurement of 45.5” and this obviously will not work for someone who actually has a 46” chest.
 

Aloysius

One Too Many
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1,516
What does reverse vanity-sizing mean? That's a new term for me.

It means that the sizing is smaller than the tagged sise, as opposed to vanity sizing where something is bigger than it says.

All joking aside, I think to some extent this comes down to the Japanese not really knowing what the inch-chest size system is supposed to entail. Many Japanese brands take 38/40/42/44 to mean another term for alpha sizes (like how the European shoe size system is numbered but those numbers dont represent anything), so 44 is whatever they would locally consider an “XL” etc.

...makes me wonder if, perhaps, the jacket is made the way it is for the sake of compatibility with the popular trend of comical over-sizing in Japanese fashion that has been emerging over the past few years.

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FCL is the opposite of the Japanese oversize trend (which can look good for what it’s worth, depending on how it’s handled). They make things extra slim.

Look at that, Zangy was on to something.

I think I tried to mention that in a reply to him, which he flipped out at me about. He was saying wearing fitting jackets proves that we’re all fashion victims, and I said the current wave of fashion is actually oversize…

I think this might have been when he was accusing us of all being enthusiasts for some weird German brand none of us have ever heard of.
 

Canuck Panda

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2,458
26" is long for US medium (Japan 44). But this is also how TB specs theirs too, and how most stock Schotts are cut too. So it must be market demand. I prefer shorter (24"-25") but I mostly wear mid rise pants.
I don't think Japan 44 means actual 44 chest. It's just how they translate XL. And their XL is equal to US Medium or EU Large.
Every brands wants to have their own Mullholand or Highwayman...etc. I just think FC can do better than this. The FC guy has seen everybody's else jackets and as much vintage as possible, and he chose this. But what do I know.
FWIW, this jacket has better photo on their Japanese website. It still looks straight body. But that could be their attempt to fit most bodies and generate more sales.
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Their resellers are not doing them any favors by taking the photos with the sleeves bent inwards.
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Aloysius

One Too Many
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1,516
26" is long for US medium (Japan 44). But this is also how TB specs theirs too, and how most stock Schotts are cut too. So it must be market demand. I prefer shorter (24"-25") but I mostly wear mid rise pants.
I don't think Japan 44 means actual 44 chest. It's just how they translate XL. And their XL is equal to US Medium or EU Large.
Every brands wants to have their own Mullholand or Highwayman...etc. I just think FC can do better than this. The FC guy has seen everybody's else jackets and as much vintage as possible, and he chose this. But what do I know.
FWIW, this jacket has better photo on their Japanese website. It still looks straight body. But that could be their attempt to fit most bodies and generate more sales.
View attachment 408825
Their resellers are not doing them any favors by taking the photos with the sleeves bent inwards.
View attachment 408826

This one is not all that long by FCL standards. They have a jacket that has many (great) aesthetic features of 1970s Perfectos… then gives it an extreme slim fit (instead of slim V) and makes it like 29 inches long, which looks really weird with the mitered buckle and old school zips, etc.
 

Canuck Panda

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2,458
26" is too long for me. 29" would look more coat like. But I get that FCL is going for the 50/50 (top/bottom) ratio look instead of the 1/3 (shorter top/longer bottom) ratio I tend to go for. So he is more "work wear" than say "military". Different strokes for different folks.
 

Aloysius

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The funniest thing is that most of the big evangelists/influencers for JAPANESE LEATHER JACKETS in the west fall victim to that phenomenon, with zero self-awareness.

“This is the most finely made and flattering garment of its kind.”

Insert big budget photo of the writer looking like a sausage about to pop (via giant head) due to proportion mismatch.
 

Marc mndt

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5,430
They tend to make the shoulders look smaller than they actually are, and it is an unflattering look, especially if you already have small shoulders.
With the flat head being the exception. The shoulder is twice as wide as the chest lol. Unflattering nonetheless.

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I’m not going to single anybody out that I saw with this issue, but what you said is not untrue… It’s beyond unflattering in some cases. Some of these folks look comicly ridiculous. I don’t know if they actually like the look or there is some sort of cognitive dissonance going on.
There are exceptions. I think these freewheelers jackets are quite suitable for the western physique.

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Aloysius

One Too Many
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1,516
There are exceptions. I think these freewheelers jackets are quite suitable for the western physique.

While I agree, I would add that these guys get their "expert" badge off of memorizing stats and names, yet tend to have no understanding of fit (thus you see them in $10k of MiJ workwear and leather looking worse than some guy in a mall jacket, or lambasting a company for something that actually came down to buying the wrong size).

You understand fit, so you can find the fit that works.
 

MrProper

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Insert big budget photo of the writer looking like a sausage about to pop (via giant head) due to proportion mismatch.
Do you perhaps have an example so that I can imagine this better?
Maybe it's the actual physique that is mercilessly revealed? Or the angle of the camera? Or it's really incompatibility lol
 

Aloysius

One Too Many
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1,516
Do you perhaps have an example so that I can imagine this better?
Maybe it's the actual physique that is mercilessly revealed? Or the angle of the camera? Or it's really incompatibility lol

I think it’s really incompatibility. It does perhaps reveal things but that is not necessarily the case. I can give a simple example— I have size 44 t-shirts from a few well regarded Japanese makers. They measure 39.5-40.5in across the chest (my chest measures 40), and have a nice snug fit.

Imagine if I had adamantly stuck to buying the ones marked 40, and tried to squeeze myself into a t-shirt that measured 4in/10cm smaller than my actual chest, and refused to acknowledge or admit something was wrong. Think that, except the self delusion is that much stronger because you know you’ve just spent thousands.
 
Messages
15,698
The funniest thing is that most of the big evangelists/influencers for JAPANESE LEATHER JACKETS in the west fall victim to that phenomenon, with zero self-awareness.

“This is the most finely made and flattering garment of its kind.”

Insert big budget photo of the writer looking like a sausage about to pop (via giant head) due to proportion mismatch.

Agreed. And in the best case scenario, the clothes just looks... Normal and rarely ever stand out as something uniquely special. I always wonder about whether the Japanese clothes aficionados actually believe the whatever rare quality of their stuff is perceivable, or are simply advertising the product.

Carefully put together, the outfits give off the same vibe as the Zara store mannequin. Which is an insult. They're just well dressed.
 

Finn Vigorous

One of the Regulars
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153
I think one explanation for these kind of brands/fits being popular are the on-line enclaves, such as Styleforum and Superfuture, where these are hyped, also by contrasting them to more classical styles and patterns favored by old farts, such as myself.
 

Mich486

One Too Many
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1,629
So many interesting and different discussion points being raised

I think these days the overall look of every expensive brand can be re-created with cheapos. $3000 SLP perfectos can look like $300 all saints for example. Workwear inspired looks can be replicated pretty well with Gap/j-crew without wearing several thousands worth of clothing.

Japanese or not, fit is king regardless…. a good fitting gap shirt is better than an ill fitting freewheelers one for sure.

I guess some people need to accept that some brands just don’t fit every body type. There are uncountable examples of ill fitting jackets in the WAYWT thread… some are Japanese brands, most are not and many are well… MTM. Sometime you get an expensive jacket and while it doesn’t fit you try to convince yourself that it does. Think that’s just human nature. I did that with custom jackets too more than once.

FC makes these super slim fitting elongated jackets. To me it looks like they’re going for the silhouette of those artisanal brands (which is an aesthetic that I find revolting but that’s personal taste) but with heritage/Americana details. I think some of their jackets look good others not. Oh well… plenty of other brands.
 

erikb02809

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Newport, RI
Do you perhaps have an example so that I can imagine this better?
Maybe it's the actual physique that is mercilessly revealed? Or the angle of the camera? Or it's really incompatibility lol
@MrProper https://www.instagram.com/fjorde/ might be one? His IG comes up in my recommendations a lot, and I always figured that "look" of how his jackets fit was because he should probably go up a size. I had never really stopped and thought how Japanese cuts and reverse vanity sizings might have contributed to the situation.
 
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Marc mndt

I'll Lock Up
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5,430
@MrProper https://www.instagram.com/fjorde/ might be one? His IG comes up in my recommendations a lot, and I always figured that "look" of how his jackets fit was because he should probably go up a size. I had never really stopped and thought how Japanese cuts and reverse vanity sizings might have contributed to the situation.
He must be sponsored by Double helix because he mentions them in each and every post.

These Double Helix jackets look like they're painted on.

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Jackets from western makers look a lot better on him imo.

Himel:

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Simmons bilt :

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