A Whippet with a thin ribbon??

[Mobile Vulgus]

I am very confused. An auction is up right now and it is a hat with a Whippet liner, but looks more like an Open Road-style hat…

Here's the outside:

and here is the photo of the liner…

Did they ever make Whippets with a thin ribbon??

The sweat band has "Royal Stetson" imprinted on it.

I always thought a whippet had the wide bound edge and a regular ribbon. Was I incorrect on that?

 

[buler]

Nothing to stop a hatter from putting any liner from any hat into another hat.

Or, if you are an unscrupulous ebayer, putting a Whippet liner from a junked Whippet into a better looking hat attempting to capitalize on Whippet selling prices.
B

 

[Lefty]

There's another hat with a Borso sweat and Whippet liner.

 

[fmw]

There appears to be nothing stamped on the sweat band either. Obviously, this hat endured some customization.

 

[rlk]

I saw two whippets this morning with leather bands and fur coats.

 

[buler]

There appears to be nothing stamped on the sweat band either. Obviously, this hat endured some customization.

It has "Royal Stetson" and a John B Stetson Company mark on the sweat...[huh]

B

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

Nothing to stop a hatter from putting any liner from any hat into another hat.

Or, if you are an unscrupulous ebayer, putting a Whippet liner from a junked Whippet into a better looking hat attempting to capitalize on Whippet selling prices.
B

I also saw the Borsalino with a Whippet liner. I think these are guys trying to mislead buyers. I am glad I got that confirmed by you fellows.

People will do anything, won't they?

 

[Lefty]

It's possible that they're out to mislead, but it's also possible that they found the hats that way. A Borso Trionfo would bring pretty good money on its own.

 

[buler]

I also saw the Borsalino with a Whippet liner. I think these are guys trying to mislead buyers. I am glad I got that confirmed by you fellows.

People will do anything, won't they?

I'm just saying that is one of the possibilities. I don't want to disparage these particular sellers because I have no experience with them. I was just giving possible reasons for the misplaced liner.

B

 

[navarre]

I never understand the folks on ebay. I mean the guy bashed the hat backwards! I'm not sure if he is unscrupulous or just....
well, you I'm sure you get my drift.

 

[hatophile]

It's actually not a bad looking hat, whatever it is.

 

[Dinerman]

Does it really matter?
Buy the hat, buy the style, buy the quality, not the (meaningless) model name designation.

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

Does it really matter?
Buy the hat, buy the style, buy the quality, not the (meaningless) model name designation.

??

Isn't the "model name designation" an indication of the very "quality," and "style" that you just told us to buy? Your whole sentence seems contradictory. Should we buy a Ford Pinto car onto which somebody affixed a Cadillac logo because we thought the Cadillac logo indicated the quality of the product? I must say, I couldn't begin to understand what your point is. I guess you don't care about the whole concept of "truth in advertising"?

 

[Dinerman]

Have to say, I really enjoyed the personal accusations.

??

Isn't the "model name designation" an indication of the very "quality," and "style" that you just told us to buy?

No.
"Whippet" is just a word. I've seen identically styled Stetsons of the same felt qualty from the same time period go for a quarter of the price because they don't have that one word printed on them.

"Whippet" speaks nothing to the quality of the hat. That's what the quality designation on the sweatband is for.

And if you're looking for a particular style of hat, a particular look you're going for, use your eyes. If you're looking for a hat with wide brim binding and a wide ribbon with a straight sided crown and mid to wide brim, take a look for that style- don't buy a hat in a style you're not looking for just because it has a liner that says "whippet".

As happens with a lot of hats over the years, liners go missing. Say a hat that started out from the Stetson factory as a "whippet" lost its liner thirty, forty years ago. These days, even though the style is all "whippet", it isn't worth a fraction of one with that word on it It's all about buying into a trend, jumping on the bandwagon.

Your whole sentence seems contradictory. Should we buy a Ford Pinto car onto which somebody affixed a Cadillac logo because we thought the Cadillac logo indicated the quality of the product?

Maybe you should read it again and pay attention.
You should buy a hat because it's nice, not because someone's told you an arbitrary style is what's "in". It used to be "Stratoliners" that fetched ridiculous prices, now not as much. Now it's "whippets". Maybe next it'll be the Stetson "V"- who knows.

Some of the better hats I've had have been by smaller shops that you don't see hats from as much- better felt, better workmanship, but they just don't garner high prices because they aren't by big names. If I sold my "Worth Walden 50", a hat which has better felt than the dozen or so Stetson 7x/50s I've had, I would lose my shirt on the deal. If I sold a 7X Stetson with identical dimensions, size, color- It would go for a bunch of money. That has nothing to do with quality or style and everything to do with buying a brand.

I must say, I couldn't begin to understand what your point is. I guess you don't care about the whole concept of "truth in advertising"?

Again, I really appreciate your condescension and accusation.

I'm all about truth in advertising, but as a buyer, you have to have some experience and knowledge. And you can't constantly blame sellers for not knowing as much as you think you do.
It's usually impossible to know the full history of a hat that's been around 50, 60, 70 years.
It's true, that liner doesn't belong in a hat with a thin ribbon and thin binding. But there's no way for you to know how long that liner has been in that hat.
It could have been put in because it was handy by a hatter 50 years ago after a reblock because it was handy. It could have been a factory mistake- we've seen examples of those sold by the factory store on the board.
You don't know, and the seller probably doesn't either.

And yes, it is possible that the seller is trying to pull a fast one, but going by the matching condition of the liner and hat, and how it seems the seller doesn't know a lot about hats, I doubt they are.

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

Maybe you should read it again and pay attention.

Or you could just write with more clarity instead. Your second reply made sense. Your first was devoid of logic.

 

[RBH]

No need to come off so angry sounding MV.
I and I bet more than a few others understood what DMan meant in his first post.
Remember this is a place of civility.

 

[handlebar bart]

Thanks Rusty. That was a timely reminder.

 

[tonyb]

In a vintage store a couple-three years ago I came across a Mode Edge Stetson with a Whippet liner. I figured that at some point in its better-than-half-century existence the liner just made its way from a Whippet into this other hat. Or that it was a factory mix-up and for that reason somebody got it at a bargain price at the Chestnut Street store way back when. Or, ...

I tend toward giving eBay sellers the benefit of whatever doubts might arise as a result of their inaccurate descriptions, at least until I see good reason not to. The overwhelming majority of them wouldn't know a Stetson Whippet from a Homburg, so their misrepresentations are likelier a result of ignorance than dishonesty.

 

[hatophile]

I see the seller revised the listing and re-listed it for much less, the hat went quickly after that!

 

[fmw]

Personally, I doubt there are many sellers who are trying to dupe the public in the vintage hat area. These people are usualy folks who buy things at auctions and resell them on ebay to make some extra cash. Most of them are far less knowledgeable about those hats than the members of this group are. Ebay is and always has been a risky place to buy and sell. Ebay is trying to change that but it might be too late.