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All Hallows Eve is bigger than Christmas

TheKitschGoth

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407
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Brighton, UK
Viola said:
Yes. Its All Hallows Eve. Some Orthodox Jews, for instance, are not comfortable with essentially celebrating a minor Christian holiday, even if its rarely seen out of an entirely secular context in the US.

I suppose, I guess it's just almost everyone I've ever spoken to sees it as Pagan. My mum wouldn't let me and my brother celebrate it as kids because of that. Just sounds strange to me hearing it described as too Christian.
 

Spitfire

I'll Lock Up
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5,078
Location
Copenhagen, Denmark.
Over here Christmas is still the big thing.
Halloween is only a marketing scam, made up by some smart businessmen, trying to make us all into americans;)
We don't buy it!:eek:
 

dhermann1

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9,156
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Da Bronx, NY, USA
I saw a history of Christmas on TV once, where they explained how the hard core Presbyterian Scots used to disdain Christmas as a totally Pagan holiday, even as recently as WW II. No observation of the day whatsoever.
where I grew up, in western New York State, the hilidays matched the weather. Christmas was deep winter, with 2 or 3 or more feet of snow. Halloween was just after the leaves, which get spectacular up there, had all fallen down and the world had turned completely to a bleak grey.
 

Starius

Practically Family
Messages
698
Location
Neverwhere, Iowa
Spitfire said:
Over here Christmas is still the big thing.
Halloween is only a marketing scam, made up by some smart businessmen, trying to make us all into americans;)
We don't buy it!:eek:

Just like Valentines Day! Hallmark has to sell those cards and Ziggy dolls, folks!
 

Sefton

Call Me a Cab
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2,132
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Somewhere among the owls in Maryland
I like them both,but I don't like the out of control "partying" that goes with Halloween in San Francisco. It reminds me of that old 60's Star Trek episode where this planet has a population that is mild and meek all year long-except for several hours on a certain day when they go crazy and commit all sorts of violent acts. Then they become calm again...[huh]

Anyhow,my daughter is three months old now and I'm looking forward to celebrating both Halloween and Christmas with her. She's all the excuse I need to light a pumpkin or a tree (I just wish I had my grandmothers aluminium "tree" and electric spinning color wheel!).
 

Foofoogal

Banned
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4,884
Location
Vintage Land
California is a strange planet.

Golly. FL is a strange planet I am beginning to think.
As a Christian who does not celebrate Halloween and who loves to watch everyone else blowing money that I smugly one time a year don't have to the most amazing thing about this whole thread is that everyone is actually saying "Christmas."lol
 

Hondo

One Too Many
Messages
1,655
Location
Northern California
Halloween

Just a pagan holiday, another good reason to party ;) Christmas just around the corner, Regarding Christmas, I go by old Saint Nick more than Jesus birthday, to each his own I say :)
 

Kentucky Blues

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436
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Kentucky
Actually, on the suggestion that Christmas is Jesus birthday, and that Christmas is the Winter Solstice, I believe theres a bit of confusion. It's my understanding that it became a common practice to display the nativity scene at some point a long time ago, and nobody could really decide when it should be done, and were doing it through various times between fall and spring. And finally, the Pope (I think) decided that celebrating Christs birth with the nativity scene would be done on December 25th, as sort of a middle time to make it easier on everyone. (That's the short version)

And way back when the mass conversions to Christianity were starting, when the concept of numbers was bigger than dedicated souls to Christ, The Christian societies that were encouraging conversion understood that telling people "they can't" is not a good way to get them on your side, and so they let them have it they're way when it came to celebrating Christmas. Basically, if you were to be Christian, you had to celebrate Christs birth, but you could do it anyway you liked, even if it meant doing something you had always done (like celebrating winter solstice) and just calling it Christmas. And thus, all the crazy Christmas Traditions we have today are mostly just a compilation of several completely Non Christian (though not anti-Christian) traditions done in the name of Christ because it would make you look Christian (again, short version)

And Viola, this kinda goes to show that Christmas is neither really Jesus' Birthday, nor a Holiday whose traditions are Christian related, so when dhermann1 said to take the holiday back, and to celebrate Winter anyway, there's really no reason to do otherwise lol
 

MrBern

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DeleteStreet, REDACTCity, LockedState
Adult Halloween costumes in NYC used to be interesting & often unique & timely.
Now its devolved into NaughtyNurse, HottieCop, FeistyFiregal, SexyCheerleader, blah blah blah. Boring.

I love Halloween , but I still prefer Thanksgiving as a holiday that maintains its spirit. Tho I'm not sure if the Native Americans do.
 

Kentucky Blues

A-List Customer
Messages
436
Location
Kentucky
Feraud said:
What is this business.. Christmas is no longer a Christian holiday?
What gives?

Naw, it's Christian alright... just very few of the traditions are. Celebrating Jesus' Birth: Christian. Giving away presents, fat guys comin down the chimney, and putting up lights on the outside, and dead trees on this inside: Non-Christian, but fun none-the-less. :)

And also, on the subject of Halloween being a Christian Holiday, I think its sort of the same idea. All Hallow's Eve was a Christian Holiday, but the whole ghosts and goblins and trick or treating stuff were non-Christian beliefs that just happened to occur around the same time, and thus were merged in with halloween while having no relation.
 

Miss Neecerie

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6,616
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The land of Sinatra, Hoboken
Its called

Syncretism folks....

from the Wikipedia:

Syncretism consists of the attempt to reconcile disparate or contradictory beliefs, often while melding practices of various schools of thought. The term may refer to attempts to merge and analogize several originally discrete traditions, especially in the theology and mythology of religion, and thus assert an underlying unity allowing for an Inclusive approach to other faiths.


The modern celebrations of Christmas (as celebrated in the northern European tradition, originating from pagan Yule holidays), Easter (as celebrated in the eastern European tradition, with the incorporation of spring fertility rites) and Halloween exemplify details of Christian/pagan syncretism. Earlier, the elevation of Christmas as an important holiday largely grew out of a need to replace the Saturnalia, a popular December festival of the Roman Empire.
 

RedHotRidinHood

Practically Family
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786
Location
Phoenix
Miss N....you said it better than I could. You just nailed it-dead on! So many pagan things were appropriated by the Christians, most people do not realize it. It's kind of funny for me as a former Wiccan to see Christians celebrate holidays in so many similar ways to pagans, and alot of them don't even realize it. It's too bad that Hallowe'en has been portrayed so negatively by so many religious groups and churches-and what's even weirder is that Wiccans don't even believe in the "devil"...so they can't worship something they don't believe in. Hallowe'en is not an evil holiday...it's just been misunderstood.

What, nobody is going to say anything about Day of the Dead? Here in the Southwest, it's huge, for obvious reasons. November first, also known as All Saints Day. And to pagans, Hallowe'en is one of the most powerful nights of the year, known as Samhain. It's always been my favorite holiday, even as a child. I always felt sorry for the kids whose parents wouldn't let them partake, but to each his own. I love the wacky and tacky hoopla surrounding it!
 

Doh!

One Too Many
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Tinsel Town
As much as I prefer Halloween over Christmas, I'd still give Christmas the blue ribbon in the "popularity" category. Halloween items are typically only on sale during the month of October (or, as the good Senator would say, "Rocktober").

Christmas items are on sale November, December -- and even part of October. And let's not forget all those "Christas in July" sales. All of this, of course, pretty much explains why I'm not a Christmas fan.
 
Unfortunately, Christmas has become too commercialized in our society to truly be a religious holiday anymore, IMO. Many if not most people have lost touch with all its roots, paying only lip service at best. (Although, I'd argue this is also caused by the shallow, materialistic nature of the "instant-gratification" generations, but that's a musing for another post...)

Says a guy whose usual observance of it is extended prayer and meditation in the morning, then old John Wayne movies all afternoon and evening, mind you!
 

Smithy

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5,139
Location
Norway
Christmas is the big one here and back home in NZ.

There was absolutely no Halloween when I was a kid, but we celebrate Guy Fawkes a few days later on the 5th November (actually I think only the UK and NZ observe Guy Fawkes, I know the Aussies don't).

Over the last few years there's been the odd kid going out and doing that trick or treat thingie but it's hardly widespread. Generally it's considered an American tradition so (like Thanksgiving) there is little reason for NZers to follow it.

Christmas is a laid back affair back home, here in Norway it's a really big deal, good fun.
 

Spitfire

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5,078
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Copenhagen, Denmark.
I believe Christmas is such a big thing in Scandianavia, because it was a huge thing even before christianity came around. The vikings celeberated the return of the sun, the days starting getting longer again - with wild parties.
Lots of food, beer etc. :beer: :beer: Same thing now - now its only called Christmas.

And it's only the kids in Denmark who gets a big ting out of Halloween - before that they only had Shrovetide, where they dressed up and went from door to door collecting money or sweets - now they can do it twice a year instead.
And most grownups tends to forget abot Halloween - so every other door they knock on, they don't get anything.:(
 

Maj.Nick Danger

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Behind the 8 ball,..
Senator Jack said:
I never cared for Halloween, and now that it's a month-long festival, it's even worse. It has begun to diminish our most awesome holy holiday season:

R O C K T O B E R !

twistedsister.jpg

Those are some scary costumes! :eek:
 

Dracca

One of the Regulars
Messages
126
Location
Texas
Well, I guess for me Halloween is more fun and also less stress. Perhaps this why so many are into it. Plus I just love to dress up. :)

I don't know, I am not Christian but usually celebrate it, as most of my family and friends are and it's more "tradition" and just part of the society that I grew up in more than anything else. Decorating the tree, baking, etc. I guess for Christians it would mean a lot more but for me it is also traveling, sometimes far and in ice and snow and airport delays and overcrowding, cooking hour after hour then cleaning hour after hour for days not just on Christmas but the whole "holiday season" off and on. Endless parties (not that I mind that concept on it's own) but some with people that aren't really friends or anyone that you have anything in common with but just neighbors, co-workers, etc. that you kind of have but have to go to be polite. I really find it all quite exhausting.

They are both very commercialized now, IMO, it's just that for me personally, one is more fun and less stress all around.
 

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