Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
Messages
15,685
I'm not sure I agree with you. I wear a size 42 from western makers. I don't fit a size 42 from most Asian makers (chest too tight, armholes too tight). I don't know about TFH's sizing, but knowing the actual measurements will certainly be helpful in deciding whether I'd need a 42 or a 44.

I agree and that's why I mentioned that the correct size number for the Flat Head is certainly something in a need of verification since being based on an Asian built, there's a possibility that your regular size might be off - but - I strongly believe that for anyone buying their first jacket, correct measurements will do more harm than good.
I mean, knowing the numbers will definitely be beneficial for you or me but for someone who's only just measured their other "good" jacket, there really is no reference point that can only come after, well, years of trial and error.

One thing that I'm absolutely sure of is that if the P2P works, so will everything else. I have NEVER tried on a jacket in the correct chest width, that had some other measurement off (except for sleeves but that's another story).

There's already some talk about the length of the jacket up there and that's... Well, the jackets are OTR so there really is no point. I'm sure that the length will be okay, provided the rest of the jacket checks out. Simply because there's no alternative. :D

To simplify things even further, with OTR, it's just like Goldilocks and the Three Bears: One jacket will be too roomy & baggy, one too tight & uncomfortable and one will be just perfect.
 

Carlos840

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,850
Location
London
I think that what @Monitor is trying to say is that when starting in this hobby it is too easy to fixate on the numbers and to convince one self that "this jacket won't work, the measurements are wrong".
It's not that simple, some jackets can have the "right" measurements and fit wrong, some jackets can have the "wrong" measurements and fit right.
Untill you know what you want from a jacket and start understanding how each measurement influences fit AND looks, you are basically looking at measurements without really undestanding how they relate to anything.
IMO that can be hurtful and prevent you from trying on great jackets that could be a great fit.
The are a lot of unknown unknowns to learn about if you want to go down the rabbit hole.

I agree that as a beginner you should be trying on jackets and focusing on how they feel/look before you obsess too much about the numbers.
Although, data collection and establishing early what numbers are important for you and you rbody type is also very useful, just don't limit yourself because of numbers.
 

Nathan Ford

New in Town
Messages
27
It took me about 10 years and many, many jackets to get sizing right.
OMG, It's such a long time
There was no internet back then so I was flying blind and I stupidly thought labeled sizes meant something. Nevertheless, I don't think a first jacket is ever right - it takes a few to work out, not just sizing, but preferences for back length and chest width. You will defiantly get there faster here but remember how a jacket looks in photos may not hep you. My jacket with the best looking fit in photos was almost impossible to breathe in.
So, there is no shortcut at all?
 
Messages
10,112
Location
SoCal
If you are buying from a store, try it out! As long as there is a return policy you will be fine and will walk away learning something even if you send it back. Shopkeepers also have valuable insight regarding fit. I wouldn’t spend $900 off ebay for a first jacket. Nothing beats putting it on before purchasing! Flat Head uses great leather and makes a nice jacket. I hear the shoulders are broader than many makers though.
 

Marc mndt

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,403
So, there is no shortcut at all?
I visited a couple of brick and morter stores to try on couple of jackets from well known makers: Eastman, Aero and Thedi. I had to drive to Germany for it (there are no stockists of quality jackets in the Netherlands) but it was definitely worth it. I learned about sizing and different styles without spending any money.

After visiting 3 or 4 for stockists I decided a Thedi was what I wanted so I placed a custom order at Thedi Leathers.
 

Nathan Ford

New in Town
Messages
27
I have always been of the opinion that we're digging too deep on the fit issue of OTR jackets and that in about 89% of cases, the size number is the best way to determine your size - More so than following the actual measurements 97% of people can't get right when measuring their "good fitting" jacket, let alone themselves.
Sorry, what do yo means by OTR??
I had 21" shoulders until I realized I simply don't & that I can wear a jacket with 17" shoulders and that the shoulder width is actually a massive scam.

What I'm trying to say is, I'm fairly certain that @Nathan Ford will be very, very happy with a Flat Head in his size. Of course, what size that is has to be determined but that shouldn't be a problem, provided the store has any half-decent return policy.

Nathan, when dealing with off-the-rack jackets, do your self a favor and ignore the centimetres & measurements, especially when it comes to your first big purchase and buy the jacket in a size the store recommends you to buy. See if it works and if it does, keep it. I cannot stress that enough.
Knowing the lengths & widths won't do you no good as you can't really do anything about it and it will only mislead you from purchasing a jacket in a size you should be wearing.

Thank you, that encourages me a lot! In this case, I think size 38 should work because its measurements closest to my jacket. My mother always said the shouder width is the most important things, first an foremost, does it hold true with leather jacket?
 

Peacoat

Bartender
Bartender
Messages
5,895
Location
South of Nashville
Sorry, what do yo means by OTR??


Thank you, that encourages me a lot! In this case, I think size 38 should work because its measurements closest to my jacket. My mother always said the shouder width is the most important things, first an foremost, does it hold true with leather jacket?
For me the most important measurement for jackets and coats is the p2p. Of course if one has really broad shoulders, that measurement may be the determining factor.
 

Carlos840

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,850
Location
London
Sorry, what do yo means by OTR??


Thank you, that encourages me a lot! In this case, I think size 38 should work because its measurements closest to my jacket. My mother always said the shouder width is the most important things, first an foremost, does it hold true with leather jacket?

Shoulder width is IMO the least important measurement when talking about leather jackets, i own jackets ranging from 18.5" to 21" and they all fit great.
For me the most important measurement is pit to pit and bottom hem sweep.
 

Nathan Ford

New in Town
Messages
27
I visited a couple of brick and morter stores to try on couple of jackets from well known makers: Eastman, Aero and Thedi. I had to drive to Germany for it (there are no stockists of quality jackets in the Netherlands) but it was definitely worth it. I learned about sizing and different styles without spending any money.

After visiting 3 or 4 for stockists I decided a Thedi was what I wanted so I placed a custom order at Thedi Leathers.
I wish I could but it's just imposible right now. Their leather jacket is rarely seen outside of Japan since their shutdown.
 

Marc mndt

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,403
Sorry, what do yo means by OTR??

Off the rack (OTR): only standard sizing available.

Custom: standard pattern with the option to alter some basic measurements like sleevelength or body length.

Bespoke : pattern alterations.

Most Japanese brands only offer OTR.
 

Carlos840

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,850
Location
London

Nathan Ford

New in Town
Messages
27
One thing that I'm absolutely sure of is that if the P2P works, so will everything else. I have NEVER tried on a jacket in the correct chest width, that had some other measurement off (except for sleeves but that's another story).

For me the most important measurement for jackets and coats is the p2p. Of course if one has really broad shoulders, that measurement may be the determining factor.

I have a small qestion, Correct chest width mean it should fit snug without restrictive in chest? or as long as it didn't too tight?
 
Messages
10,112
Location
SoCal
It is best to measure a jacket you feel fits you well. Then match those numbers. Typically, you would take your chest measurement (measured at nipple height) and add 2-4in. Then divide by 2 for the pit to pit. 2in extra for slim fit/ 4in for relaxed fit.
I measure 38-39inches and wear between a 20.5” and 21.5” pit to pit comfortably.
 
Last edited:

Peacoat

Bartender
Bartender
Messages
5,895
Location
South of Nashville
I have a small qestion, Correct chest width mean it should fit snug without restrictive in chest? or as long as it didn't too tight?
It just depends on your preferred fit. Do you like a snug fit or do you like it more relaxed. I prefer a more relaxed fit for comfort. Of course, the fit should never be restrictive.

Remember that the chest size is always measured around the full circumference of the chest. Jackets are always measured p2p. @handymike gives some handy tips in his post above.
 
Messages
15,685
I have a small qestion, Correct chest width mean it should fit snug without restrictive in chest? or as long as it didn't too tight?

This question is gonna get you into more trouble than any answer might be worth. Naturally you want to get the most perfect fitting jacket but the answer is something you can discover only on your own - And maybe ask for some opinions in the process but I don't think you should go with what people online tell you your jacket ought to feel like, before actually trying it on.

There's no correct fit and if there is, I'd say it lies somewhere between looking great and feeling comfortable. But the most important thing is to try the jacket on.

As for the shoulder measurement, some very major leather jacket makers will tell you that it pretty much doesn't exist and I completely agree. I've got my beef with Stu but man knows what he's talking about and makes a perfect leather jacket so this is one of those cases where I'd ignore what the mum has to say and go with the advice of the professionals. :)

http://www.lostworldsinc.com/Lost_Worlds_Ordering_Information.htm

Seriously, ignore shoulder width, whatever even that may be. To this day I'm not even close to sure how to take it.
 

Carlos840

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,850
Location
London
I have a small qestion, Correct chest width mean it should fit snug without restrictive in chest? or as long as it didn't too tight?

IMO no such thing as "correct" chest measurement.
Correct for what? Layering? Wearing with a T-shirt?
It depends on the pattern. To me a "correct" chest measurement can be anywhere from 22 to 24.5" depending on the maker and the model.
 

jeo

Practically Family
Messages
702
Location
Philadelphia
I see. What if I try on some other jackets, post pictures here, then you guys help me to make a decision, is that possible? I tend to buy an "buy it for life" jacket. It would be great if I can ignore the trial stage, save some bucks.
Btw, do you think $900 for this one is the steal, ?

It's funny I just bought this exact jacket. Should be arriving in the next few days. That one looks in good condition so I think $900 is probably market value for it. I also tried it on years ago at Self Edge. Unfortunately they stopped making it a long time ago. Besides the model pic, I've only seen it worn twice. The most recent by someone selling theirs on Grailed. I was surprised at how small it fit. The Flat Head jackets definitely fit small.

The issue of sizing and tag size vs. measurements was recently discussed in another thread. In my opinion it is a case by case, person by person, jacket by jacket thing. It is my opinion that no one measurement is the most important.

Just like @Seb Lucas, it took me many years and many jackets to figure it out.

Initially it was figuring out my measurements. I then realized that you just need to know a range and what that range is for you. I think most people can have slight variances in any given measurement and the jacket can still fit nicely.

Then it was figuring out different cuts and how they fit on different people. The jacket that I first fell in love with many years ago was the Aero Highwayman. After many attempts and money spent, I realized that jacket is just not for me. I'm sure now with the Premier cut and Thurston brothers custom ordering process that I can get a highwayman that fits me but I'm over it now.

For me personally I never go by tag size. I'm short but I still have pretty broad shoulders and chest. Most size 36 north American brands will fit me in the shoulder and chest but will not fit in sleeve and body length. Most size 38 Japanese brands will be the same thing for me.

Early on I bought a Schott size 32. It fit really big and bulky (probably was a 90's model) I now have a Schott size 36 (early 80's) and it fits. Schott is notorious for having crazy sizing and I also put on some weight since then so that might not be a good example, but my point is that tag sizes can vary wildly between makers. I just tried on a Fine Creek Leathers Leon Custom in a size 38. Fit tight everywhere but the sleeve and body length. Tag size can even vary within the same brand and style. Last year I tried on a FCL Leon the Nostar in size 38 and it was bigger than the Leon Custom in the same size. The guy at the shop also confirmed that.

I think the concept of what @Monitor said about if the chest fits, everything else will fit could be correct. I just think it can be one certain measurement for one person and a different certain measurement for another person. Again, most size 36s and some 38s chest will fit me great, but the jacket will be ill fitting overall because they will have long sleeves and body length. As an example when I bought my rainbow country jacket the shoulder measurement specified on the website was much larger than anything I've ever bought before but the sleeve length was good and I know that the style of jacket is a waist length jacket that when worn the sleeve will go past the body length. For me I can look at just the sleeve length.

My advice for you would be to get two initial base measurements. First measure a jacket that you currently have that fits you good. You must make sure that the fit of that jacket is how you want your leather jacket to fit. Then take your body measurements. You can easily find out how to do that online. Then compare those two measurements. You will now have a base set that you can compare when looking to purchase. Tag size can be the first step in narrowing down what you're looking at. Then you look at the measurements of the jacket. I've seen many people get it right the first time. I wasn't so lucky.

Hope this helps!
 

Forum statistics

Threads
102,934
Messages
2,921,668
Members
49,864
Latest member
skylize
Top