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stephena310

One of the Regulars
Messages
100
Location
Palos verdes estates, Ca
It's simply NOT the case, Stephen. There are a myriad of other factors which would need to be ignored.

Granted...However, let me pose the question this way..."if you saw a photograph of a Dunlap Fedora with a brown sweatband , would you agree that the odds are greater that the hat was made before 1965, rather than after "?




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Messages
14,697
Location
Buffalo, NY
To turn a phrase with Charlie's comment, It's not the case simply. The character of the sweatband, taken into account with the character of the other elements in the hat would help to suggest an era. Yes, there was that solidly 1960s-70s black leather sweatband...

churchill5.jpg


but also earlier uses of black leather in sweatbands...

raleighknox5.jpg


This is why dating is the subject of so many threads and theories here. Short of a date stamp, or an OPS label, or a railway ticket tucked under the sweatband, it is not a simple business.
 
Messages
12,382
Location
Albany Oregon
To turn a phrase with Charlie's comment, It's not the case simply. The character of the sweatband, taken into account with the character of the other elements in the hat would help to suggest an era. Yes, there was that solidly 1960s-70s black leather sweatband...

churchill5.jpg


but also earlier uses of black leather in sweatbands...

raleighknox5.jpg


This is why dating is the subject of so many threads and theories here. Short of a date stamp, or an OPS label, or a railway ticket tucked under the sweatband, it is not a simple business.
This brings up a question I have. The Registered Trademark symbol. Don't these little trademark "R"s tend to date a hat as well. How early do these start to appear. My uneducated guess puts them in the late 1960s. Thoughts from our learned gurus?
 

belfastboy

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,133
Location
vancouver, canada
I have a choice between 50's era Borsalino and the same era in a St Regis Stetson. Both hats are priced about the same, both in excellent quality. Online purchase so I cannot touch the actual hats.
Opinions please; what hat offers the best felt? Is it a toss-up or is one superior to the other?
 
Messages
17,371
Location
Funkytown, USA
I have a choice between 50's era Borsalino and the same era in a St Regis Stetson. Both hats are priced about the same, both in excellent quality. Online purchase so I cannot touch the actual hats.
Opinions please; what hat offers the best felt? Is it a toss-up or is one superior to the other?

The felt may be similar, but in my admittedly limited experience, the Borsalino may be nicer. Is the Borsa a Hommie, too? That may weigh the scale as well.


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DVNO

Familiar Face
Messages
56
Location
Hamburg
Hi there,

I'm Daniel from Hamburg, Germany and I'm new in this nice forum.

Last week i bought my first Borsalino. A nice blue Fedora. I instantly fell in love with this nice hat. :) But I guess I'm a bit pedantic with it so I always check if it has a perfect shape and so on. I steamed it three times already, haha. Regarding this i have a question: Is steaming bad if you do it quite often? I really try to stop it now and accept little unevennesses. I guess you all have some unevennesses in your hat since fur felt hats are a natural product?

Thanks in advance.
 

Bob Roberts

I'll Lock Up
Messages
11,201
Location
milford ct
Good question and wlcm. I will occasionally steam and resteam to change my creases or badh an open crown. Im guessing constant/frequent steaming may eventually break down the stiffners applied during the hat making process. Im not sure when that will occur though. A certain amount of casual uneveness is cool though depending on where and to what degree.
 

DVNO

Familiar Face
Messages
56
Location
Hamburg
Thanks! Would be interesting to hear what amount of steaming may damage the hat. I see an unevenness on the back of the hat. When i look into the mirror the curve on one site might be a bit higher than on the other - it's hard to explain and I really feel pedantic when describing this. So i think it might be a thing that concerns me only now, while the hat is new and has been a really expensive purchase. Hopefully I'll be a bit more relaxed soon. ;) I don't think it will ever be symmetrical. :)
 

belfastboy

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,133
Location
vancouver, canada
The felt may be similar, but in my admittedly limited experience, the Borsalino may be nicer. Is the Borsa a Hommie, too? That may weigh the scale as well.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.
Yes, both are Hommies, both brown, both similar dimensions/profiles. In a perfect world I would buy both and declare victory but I promised myself restraint!
 
Messages
14,697
Location
Buffalo, NY
Thanks! Would be interesting to hear what amount of steaming may damage the hat. I see an unevenness on the back of the hat. When i look into the mirror the curve on one site might be a bit higher than on the other - it's hard to explain and I really feel pedantic when describing this. So i think it might be a thing that concerns me only now, while the hat is new and has been a really expensive purchase. Hopefully I'll be a bit more relaxed soon. ;) I don't think it will ever be symmetrical. :)

On a vintage hat, steaming tends to reactivate stiffness in the felt. I've never found a harm to steaming the felt. The hat seems to love it. Keep the steam away from other materials, especially a leather sweatband, which loves heat and steam much less.

Hats are somewhat like children. Having a second one will take some of the intensity of focus off the first and generally, all will be healthier for that. But when you find yourself running an orphanage, it may be time to cut back.

Welcome to the Lounge!
 

moontheloon

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,573
Location
NJ
On a vintage hat, steaming tends to reactivate stiffness in the felt. I've never found a harm to steaming the felt. The hat seems to love it. Keep the steam away from other materials, especially a leather sweatband, which loves heat and steam much less.

Hats are somewhat like children. Having a second one will take some of the intensity of focus off the first and generally, all will be healthier for that. But when you find yourself running an orphanage, it may be time to cut back.

Welcome to the Lounge!
so perfectly stated ... as expected
 
Messages
14,697
Location
Buffalo, NY
That is a lot earlier than I expected. I usually equate a trademark on say, a Dobbs with a 2" brim as being 1972 and on. This is one of those nuggets of knowledge that you are known for Alan. You are a wizard!

Thank you, but the information was not hard to find. I have registered a trademark with the USTPO but never knew the history of the marks. It was interesting to look up.
 
Messages
17,371
Location
Funkytown, USA
On a vintage hat, steaming tends to reactivate stiffness in the felt. I've never found a harm to steaming the felt. The hat seems to love it. Keep the steam away from other materials, especially a leather sweatband, which loves heat and steam much less.

Hats are somewhat like children. Having a second one will take some of the intensity of focus off the first and generally, all will be healthier for that. But when you find yourself running an orphanage, it may be time to cut back.

Welcome to the Lounge!

How many makes an orphanage? I fear I'm at least at the wayward boys' home stage.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.
 

Brad Bowers

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,187
That is a lot earlier than I expected. I usually equate a trademark on say, a Dobbs with a 2" brim as being 1972 and on. This is one of those nuggets of knowledge that you are known for Alan. You are a wizard!

HCA never used it, as far as I know, and it's not until the 1970s or 1980s that Garland began putting it on former HCA brands.

Brad
~The Hatted Professor
 
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