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Biker jacket

Claybertrand

One Too Many
Messages
1,197
Long Island city, not Long Island. LIC is in queens, Korean part of the town.

Ahhhhhh.........Ok.......Cool. Ya learn somethin new every day. I got a couple of friends who live in Long Island (West Babylon:eek::eek::eek::eek:). I didn't realize that LIC was actually an area of Queens.

As a guy with Boots on the Ground in NY, maybe you can definitively confirm for us the status of Branded Garments????

Also, to echo your post, the cross zip does indeed have a bad rap as the look was hijacked by Rebels and Rockers over the years. Its still such a classic. If you can, maybe post some pics of the early ads with the men wearing them to accompany normal or even slightly professional/formal attire. Seeing how the jackets were marketed and how the makers intended their end use is always interesting.
 

Doctor Damage

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something from the UK that was on the DM site today... "members of the 59 Club ride-out to the seaside in 1968"

members of the 59 Club ride-out to the seaside in 1968.jpg
 

dannyk

One Too Many
Messages
1,812
2675CBD1-BC75-4163-A92E-CD940A73B054.jpeg
038BFD4E-BD56-49FC-8149-BCF561FB966E.jpeg
Paul and Joe from The Clash loved biker jackets and engineer boots. A cool side story. Paul was an “artist” who went to art school before joining the band. He did a lot of clothes design, backdrops, and general artwork for the band. Quite a few years ago now he went back to his first love of painting and he’s had a few art shows and a book of his artwork is available. It’s called “Wot No Bike?” And it’s a collection of things he has laying around his flat. All biker related-jackets, helmets, gloves, a pack of smokes etc...so if we have any artists or art appreciators here at TFL I recommend picking up a copy. I own an autographed copy. Admittedly the jacket Paul is wearing in this photo is not his best fitting. But who knows it could be from his younger days. He’s always been the coolest.
3F65DA91-0818-4421-8F15-9C3771990927.jpeg
 

hodgeko

Familiar Face
Messages
81
View attachment 312946 View attachment 312947 Paul and Joe from The Clash loved biker jackets and engineer boots. A cool side story. Paul was an “artist” who went to art school before joining the band. He did a lot of clothes design, backdrops, and general artwork for the band. Quite a few years ago now he went back to his first love of painting and he’s had a few art shows and a book of his artwork is available. It’s called “Wot No Bike?” And it’s a collection of things he has laying around his flat. All biker related-jackets, helmets, gloves, a pack of smokes etc...so if we have any artists or art appreciators here at TFL I recommend picking up a copy. I own an autographed copy. Admittedly the jacket Paul is wearing in this photo is not his best fitting. But who knows it could be from his younger days. He’s always been the coolest.
View attachment 312945
That’s super cool! Book looks great, I gotta check it out.
 

Doctor Damage

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Admittedly the jacket Paul is wearing in this photo is not his best fitting. But who knows it could be from his younger days.
The fit is correct in the sleeves, chest, shoulders. The waist is fine too, or would be with old-school high-rise pants as originally intended. Great photo, thanks for posting.
 

dannyk

One Too Many
Messages
1,812
The fit is correct in the sleeves, chest, shoulders. The waist is fine too, or would be with old-school high-rise pants as originally intended. Great photo, thanks for posting.
Yeah the actual “fit” is fine as you say kinda used the wrong words. The proportions of the jeans, belt and jacket just don’t flow together well.
 
Messages
15,408
View attachment 312946 View attachment 312947 Paul and Joe from The Clash loved biker jackets and engineer boots. A cool side story. Paul was an “artist” who went to art school before joining the band. He did a lot of clothes design, backdrops, and general artwork for the band. Quite a few years ago now he went back to his first love of painting and he’s had a few art shows and a book of his artwork is available. It’s called “Wot No Bike?” And it’s a collection of things he has laying around his flat. All biker related-jackets, helmets, gloves, a pack of smokes etc...so if we have any artists or art appreciators here at TFL I recommend picking up a copy. I own an autographed copy. Admittedly the jacket Paul is wearing in this photo is not his best fitting. But who knows it could be from his younger days. He’s always been the coolest.
View attachment 312945

I gotta get that book!!! And yeah, might not be best fitting jacket but there are some you just love, even tho they fit like crap. I'm sure this is one of his favs and it's deadly in any case.
 

Doctor Damage

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Yeah the actual “fit” is fine as you say kinda used the wrong words. The proportions of the jeans, belt and jacket just don’t flow together well.
I wish we had a good usable vocabulary for describing and discussing clothing, I mean as laymen in the real world. I have done a lot of reading and precise terms do exist, but they're "inside baseball" for the tailoring and clothing businesses, and don't make any instinctual sense to laymen, so they're not really something that can be usef by non-insiders.
 

Edward

Bartender
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23,552
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London, UK
something from the UK that was on the DM site today... "members of the 59 Club ride-out to the seaside in 1968"

View attachment 215811

They'd have been the hardcore, too. The 59 Club has kept going since its inception when Father Bill first formed - in 1959, obvs - the 59 Club Youth Club, and then a little later the Motorcycle Section (which, of course, is now the Club entire). As memory serves, he later moved Parish to Southampton where he founded the less-well-known 69 Club in 1969... The Rockers were around in the late 50s, through the heyday of 60-64; by 68 it was on the wane. The affordable motor car had finally become a reality for younger people in Britain, and so began the rapid decline of the motorcycle as affordable, working-man's transport. The Ace Cafe, Rocker Central, closed originally in 1969 (not to reopen fully in its present form until 2001), and by 1979 the British motorcycle industry, which had once boasted about eighty odd different brands, was dead. That's when the image of the "biker as bad guy" really took off. The Rockers remained an underground movement- and the 59 carried on, despite a split (with some still bitter about it today, as per the short-lived splinter group "Spirit of the 59 Club) when the Club authorities chose to expel an element who had become involved with much more 'serious' MCs after the Hells Angels and other such Clubs arrived in the UK. The Rockers Reunion events began in the early-mid 90s, and things grew again.

The Rockers were the original retro movement, really: by the 60-64 heyday, they were already a retro crowd, still into the 50s rock and roll and the early 60s British rock and roll / rockabilly boom (think: Vince Taylor, Brand New Cadillac, for instance) that was murdered in the mainstream by those damned Beatles.

View attachment 312946 View attachment 312947 Paul and Joe from The Clash loved biker jackets and engineer boots. A cool side story. Paul was an “artist” who went to art school before joining the band. He did a lot of clothes design, backdrops, and general artwork for the band. Quite a few years ago now he went back to his first love of painting and he’s had a few art shows and a book of his artwork is available. It’s called “Wot No Bike?” And it’s a collection of things he has laying around his flat. All biker related-jackets, helmets, gloves, a pack of smokes etc...so if we have any artists or art appreciators here at TFL I recommend picking up a copy. I own an autographed copy. Admittedly the jacket Paul is wearing in this photo is not his best fitting. But who knows it could be from his younger days. He’s always been the coolest.
View attachment 312945

I have a copy of this - alas, I bought mine online when it first came out so it's not signed by Paul. One day I'll buy another in Lewis Leathers' shop just to get the autograph... Paul grew up around motorcycles. Bernie Rhodes was also a real authority on youth cults and nudged the Clash boys into discovering the rockers and such. For all they may have sung early on of the 'Year Zero' manifesto of the London punk scene - "No Elvis, Beatles or the Rolling Stones..." - the boys were always big fans of old rockabilly. There's a story about how one night they dressed up to go to a Ted club in London, and without thinking decided to drop in to their own punk local for last orders on the way home. Dressed as Teds. They had to fight their way out of the place, by all accounts. (John Lydon also legendarily dressed like a Ted on stage on occasion deliberately to annoy the uniform punks.)

The 'Wot no Bike?" jacket is a reference to a known Rocker who turned up at the Ace once back in the day having arrived there without his bike that he'd written off in a spill a few days beforehand. The guy had a sense of humour about it and had painted that legend on his own jacket before he arrived...

Simonon's choice of dress in that photo is interesting - he's wearing an American style jacket and American style engineer boots, in the US style - under the jeans, not over the trews with these about socks peeking out the top. The Brando style had a big influence on the British rocker scene, long before - and probably because of, rather than despite - the film had been seen in the UK because it was banned by the censors. (It's first known UK screening after the ban was lifted was in 1968, fittingly, at the 59 Club's clubhouse, then in Paddington.) The Clash boys always had a really interesting relationship with Americana, at the same time both rejecting the idea of "cultural imperialism" and yet also embracing much Americana with a real and genuine love of it - as exemplified here, of course.

Good example here of typical Rockers from the early 60s, with Father Bill in the middle - clearly 59 Club members:

4211f854ee5329eec2b3914009ce9b13--rocker-style-biker-fashion.jpg


Note the boots are neater-fitting than Engineers, typically, and a bit taller than the 10/11" standard. These are probably zipped-up in the back or inside (though not all were); the white at the top is a chunky seaboot sock, tucked up and over the top of the boot to keep it in place.
 

Doctor Damage

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Simonon's choice of dress in that photo is interesting - he's wearing an American style jacket and American style engineer boots, in the US style - under the jeans, not over the trews with these about socks peeking out the top. The Brando style had a big influence on the British rocker scene, long before - and probably because of, rather than despite - the film had been seen in the UK because it was banned by the censors.

...

Note the boots are neater-fitting than Engineers, typically, and a bit taller than the 10/11" standard. These are probably zipped-up in the back or inside (though not all were); the white at the top is a chunky seaboot sock, tucked up and over the top of the boot to keep it in place.
Likely they're wearing surplus RAF winter flying boots (or something similar) which would have been still available given that they were good quality items even though 15 years old at the time of that photo. My memory is telling me I've seen photos of British bikers wearing them. And of course the RN socks and RAF sweaters would still have been around, too.
 

dannyk

One Too Many
Messages
1,812
They'd have been the hardcore, too. The 59 Club has kept going since its inception when Father Bill first formed - in 1959, obvs - the 59 Club Youth Club, and then a little later the Motorcycle Section (which, of course, is now the Club entire). As memory serves, he later moved Parish to Southampton where he founded the less-well-known 69 Club in 1969... The Rockers were around in the late 50s, through the heyday of 60-64; by 68 it was on the wane. The affordable motor car had finally become a reality for younger people in Britain, and so began the rapid decline of the motorcycle as affordable, working-man's transport. The Ace Cafe, Rocker Central, closed originally in 1969 (not to reopen fully in its present form until 2001), and by 1979 the British motorcycle industry, which had once boasted about eighty odd different brands, was dead. That's when the image of the "biker as bad guy" really took off. The Rockers remained an underground movement- and the 59 carried on, despite a split (with some still bitter about it today, as per the short-lived splinter group "Spirit of the 59 Club) when the Club authorities chose to expel an element who had become involved with much more 'serious' MCs after the Hells Angels and other such Clubs arrived in the UK. The Rockers Reunion events began in the early-mid 90s, and things grew again.

The Rockers were the original retro movement, really: by the 60-64 heyday, they were already a retro crowd, still into the 50s rock and roll and the early 60s British rock and roll / rockabilly boom (think: Vince Taylor, Brand New Cadillac, for instance) that was murdered in the mainstream by those damned Beatles.



I have a copy of this - alas, I bought mine online when it first came out so it's not signed by Paul. One day I'll buy another in Lewis Leathers' shop just to get the autograph... Paul grew up around motorcycles. Bernie Rhodes was also a real authority on youth cults and nudged the Clash boys into discovering the rockers and such. For all they may have sung early on of the 'Year Zero' manifesto of the London punk scene - "No Elvis, Beatles or the Rolling Stones..." - the boys were always big fans of old rockabilly. There's a story about how one night they dressed up to go to a Ted club in London, and without thinking decided to drop in to their own punk local for last orders on the way home. Dressed as Teds. They had to fight their way out of the place, by all accounts. (John Lydon also legendarily dressed like a Ted on stage on occasion deliberately to annoy the uniform punks.)

The 'Wot no Bike?" jacket is a reference to a known Rocker who turned up at the Ace once back in the day having arrived there without his bike that he'd written off in a spill a few days beforehand. The guy had a sense of humour about it and had painted that legend on his own jacket before he arrived...

Simonon's choice of dress in that photo is interesting - he's wearing an American style jacket and American style engineer boots, in the US style - under the jeans, not over the trews with these about socks peeking out the top. The Brando style had a big influence on the British rocker scene, long before - and probably because of, rather than despite - the film had been seen in the UK because it was banned by the censors. (It's first known UK screening after the ban was lifted was in 1968, fittingly, at the 59 Club's clubhouse, then in Paddington.) The Clash boys always had a really interesting relationship with Americana, at the same time both rejecting the idea of "cultural imperialism" and yet also embracing much Americana with a real and genuine love of it - as exemplified here, of course.

Good example here of typical Rockers from the early 60s, with Father Bill in the middle - clearly 59 Club members:

4211f854ee5329eec2b3914009ce9b13--rocker-style-biker-fashion.jpg


Note the boots are neater-fitting than Engineers, typically, and a bit taller than the 10/11" standard. These are probably zipped-up in the back or inside (though not all were); the white at the top is a chunky seaboot sock, tucked up and over the top of the boot to keep it in place.
I know from all my older English punk friends and from reading material that after The Clash returned from their first American Tour and having gone thrifting and come back with engineer boots they started a mini fashion trend. Obviously some English bikers and trades people knew engineer boots but the clash introduced them heavily into punk and larger cultural fashion. So much so they were referred to as “clash boots.”
 

Edward

Bartender
Messages
23,552
Location
London, UK
Likely they're wearing surplus RAF winter flying boots (or something similar) which would have been still available given that they were good quality items even though 15 years old at the time of that photo. My memory is telling me I've seen photos of British bikers wearing them. And of course the RN socks and RAF sweaters would still have been around, too.

If memory serves, the white RAF sweaters were actually originally RN issue items; I'm not sure if they were ever issued to the RAF or just very common PP items.

You're absolutely right that flying boots were a thing. Lewis always made a model that was based on the RAF item, and there were available both surplus items and knock-offs sold as surplus - much as was the case with the Irvin jackets as well. (Some rockers were known on occasion to wear an Irvin type jacket in the same way as some wore the traditional waxed cotton jackets, but the black leather was more desired and highly prized, whether the aspirational Lewis or Rivetts/Highwayman jackets, or more affordable alternatives from the like of Mascot or Goldtop. The like of a Lewis Motorway boot, or a GoldTop Trophy (both considered good enough to be issued to motorcyclists in various police forces at one time and another) would have been the aspirational standard, but for those who couldn't stretch to that the surplus shop was a big thing. RAF goggles were far from uncommon too - probably more common than helmets, actually, as rockers tended to be among the younger and more reckless riders. Helmets only became a legal requirement in the UK in 1973 (at the time of the law's passage, it was estimated 80% of motorcyclists were already wearing one voluntarily).

As ever, fashion followed the youth cult, and as demand grew or supplies of surplus dried up, purpose-made came on the market.
 
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East Central Indiana
Good example here of typical Rockers from the early 60s, with Father Bill in the middle - clearly 59 Club members:

4211f854ee5329eec2b3914009ce9b13--rocker-style-biker-fashion.jpg


Note the boots are neater-fitting than Engineers, typically, and a bit taller than the 10/11" standard. These are probably zipped-up in the back or inside (though not all were); the white at the top is a chunky seaboot sock, tucked up and over the top of the boot to keep it in place.

Looks like mainly good fitting MC jackets !!
 
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