Brim edging question.

Discussion in 'Hats' started by Fedora, Jan 28, 2004.

  1. Fedora

    Fedora Vendor

    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    Mississippi
    I was wondering of anyone here knows if the welted Borsalinos all come with the hand felted edge? I just bought one recently and did not think that I would like this "welt" as I assumed it would be sewn. I was so surprised to see there was not a stitch anywhere on the brim edge. This sort of welt I like. I just wonder if I can expect to see this same hand felted welt:D on other Borsalinos. Or, did they also sew them on cheaper models. I was happy to discover that hand felted edgiing requires a superior fur mixture. regards, Fedora
     
  2. Nathan Flowers

    Nathan Flowers Head Bartender Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,610
    If I'm not mistaken, that's known as a "Cavanagh Edge", a welt that was patented by Cavanagh, and then licensed out to other hat manufacturers like Borsalino.

    I like it a lot too.
     
  3. Andykev

    Andykev I'll Lock Up Bartender

    Messages:
    4,085
    Location:
    The Beautiful Diablo Valley
    Fedpra

    Zohar is very correct. It is a Cavanagh edge , hand felted, and on the more expensive felts. The edge is produced during the felting process, hence the higher cost.

    Fine examples of workmanship.
     
  4. Fedora

    Fedora Vendor

    Messages:
    828
    Location:
    Mississippi
    So that is what a Cavanagh edge is? I sorta thought the same thing when I read about the edging at Hat Life. For some reason, they did not call it that. So Cavanagh came up with this type of edging and then sold others the right to use it. They patented it? Just curious. I gotta tell you fellows, this hand felted edge just knocked my socks off. I wonder if it is still being offered on hats nowadays? I do know one thing, I have become a fan. And that is a huge step for me. Normally, I refuse to wear anything that doesn't have a raw brim. I am turning into a hat snob, pure and simple. The quest for a good Indy hat has led to stronger drugs. Vintage Stetsons, vintage Borsalinos, and vintage Disneys. But, I do not own a Cavanagh. So that is the next quest. Fedora
     
  5. Nathan Flowers

    Nathan Flowers Head Bartender Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,610
    Good luck. They're quite common on ebay, but most are in particularly bad condition. If you hunt long enough, I have no doubt you'll find a good one.
     
  6. fedoralover

    fedoralover Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,006
    Location:
    Great Northwest
    My first fedora was a Cavanagh. As time went on though I saw that I looked better with a wider brim and higher crown so I sold it to a friend. My only Cavanagh now is my Cavanagh 100.

    regards fedoralover
     
  7. Dakota Ellison

    Dakota Ellison New in Town

    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Atlanta Ga
    Here's a pic of my Sovereign Stetson with a Cavanagh edge:
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Michael Mallory

    Michael Mallory One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    Glendale, California
    Some Borsalinos, and other Italian hats like Barbisios, have a whip-stitched edge. I'm not sure if there's a purpose for that (like if you pull it, the entire hat unravels in Laurel and Hardy fashion, or something), but in it's own way it is distinctive.
     
  9. Matt Deckard

    Matt Deckard Man of Action

    I have some hats with the Cavanagh edge reffered to by Stetson as a "Mode Edge" and another company reffers to it as a "Custom Edge".

    The newest hats I have seen the Cavanagh edge on are from the 60's, and I think that was the last of 'em.

    I have had a few conversations with Graham over the last year and he said that it can still be done they just need a strong enough interest.

    most of the hats I found when I started looking for fedoras had Cavanagh edges.
     
  10. Art Fawcett

    Art Fawcett Sponsoring Affiliate

    Messages:
    3,674
    Location:
    Central Point, Or.
    fedora, the cavanaugh edge was patented in 1931, then licensed to many other hat manufacturers. Sometimes in older hats you will see the stamp of the patent in it as they were required by law. Like Andy said, it has to be done in the felting process and to my knowledge, it isn't done today because of market conditions and cost. Borsalino has as many edge finishes as you can imagine. There is no single edge treatment that defines a Borsalino.
     
  11. Maduma

    Maduma New in Town

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Spain
    Stitched brims on Fedora type hats

    I have a Federation IV plus a number of other hats and both my Federation IV and my Montecristi Havana (super fino 3.5 brim) both have no stitching on the brim but some of my other hats including one of my wool felt hats do have brim stitching. I notice that also some of the the high end hats like the Borsalino felt hats have fine stitching. What is the general guideline about hats with stitching and those without, is it a guide to quality; ie no stitching better quality or vice versa? I was thinking about buying an Akubra Adventurer but can't see clearly enough if there is stitching though it looks like there isn't.
     
  12. fedoracentric

    fedoracentric Banned

    Messages:
    1,362
    Location:
    Streamwood, IL
    Brim treatments do not necessarily denote any sort of quality. It is a decorative choice, not a mark of quality. About the only brim treatment that was ever considered a mark of quality was the Cavanagh Edge because it was more expensive to produce (and cannot be duplicated effectively today and won't appear on any new-made hat). All other brim treatments are just a matter of style, not necessarily quality.
     
  13. Maduma

    Maduma New in Town

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Spain
    Thanks very much for the reply Fedoracentric, just what I needed to know! I actually prefer a brim with no stitching but have recently been looking at some Fedoras that I like but they have some stitching, so was wondering what the difference was from a quality point of view.
     
  14. TheDane

    TheDane Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,669
    Location:
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    A plain stitching - like the one on Stetson's Playboy - have no other than decorative purposes. A welting or binding of a brim is a lot more than just a decorative choise. A welting or binding strengthens the brim-construction quite a lot and will usually help keeping the snap in a snap-brim - especially on lightweight felts.
     
  15. Maduma

    Maduma New in Town

    Messages:
    20
    Location:
    Spain
    Thanks very much for the explanation TheDane, very informative! I can see how the welting or binding would help with the lightweight felts, makes sense now.
     
  16. carldelo

    carldelo One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,568
    Location:
    Astoria, NYC
    I had a raw edge fedora that became wavy over time. I had the brim bound, which restored the snap and it has been fine since.

    My first hat was a Cavanagh with the eponymous edge, I have one underwelt and multiple bound-brim hats. I much prefer some sort of edge treatment, for the look of it, as well as the snappiness retained in the brim. Also, it seems trivial but it's much easier to hold a hat with a welted brim without dropping it.
     
  17. barrowjh

    barrowjh One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,398
    Location:
    Maryville Tennessee
    The only time I want a plain edge is for westerns, wether in the Strat/OR brim width (2 1/2 - 2 5/8) or with wider cowboy brims. I think a fedora looks sort of naked without some edge treatment.
     
  18. art_deco_fan

    art_deco_fan Familiar Face

    Messages:
    52
    Location:
    great northwest
    I completely agree! I have many bound edge hats, and they have a more dressed up look. nearly all my raw edge hats are daily knockabout hats. Nothing states as much class as a bound edge with a proper suit!
    Cheers all and have a wonderful Christmas!
     
  19. DJH

    DJH I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    6,348
    Location:
    Ft Worth, TX
    Agreed - the only exception being that it is possible (or at least it was quite recently) to buy a hat from Gary White ( http://www.custom-hatter.com/ ) with a Cavanagh Edge. It seems Mr White had a stock of vintage Borsalino felt bodies that came complete with the famous edge treatment.

    I don't know if he still offers these or if the stock is used up now - several Loungers have examples of these hats I believe.

    Of all the brim treatments, the Cavanagh is my favorite.
     
  20. mayserwegener

    mayserwegener

    Messages:
    14,439
    Location:
    Maryland
    I agree in general but there were unique / specialized binding treatments that did. Quality was in the technique, materials and execution (hand / machine skill). For example I don't believe American hat companies produced this type of high-end brim treatment.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2013

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