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Buying the right Lee 101J

wcbrown

One of the Regulars
Messages
164
Location
New Castle, PA
I've got two of these, 1970 & 1971, based on the labels. I also had the white one, which was older, but that went to my son, I did not care for the colour and specifically was looking for a white one.

Now yours looks fine to me. Could you specify what worries you with the jacket? If it's the length, well this one is marked long. Maybe something else?

i do seem to remember these being short, mine just covers my belt line. in all fairness, any other Lee Rider i have had in my life would have been from the early 70's on, and from what i understand when they added the hand warmer pockets the basic "cut" of these changed also? is this true?
there are a couple things that tend to make me think this may have been a second and that is why the condition is so supreme. the horizontal hem above the pocket flaps does not line up properly and the zig-zag stitch running vertically from button hole to button hole seems a bit erratic. those 2 items and the length were basically my only questions.
 

tonypaj

Practically Family
Messages
659
Location
Divonne les Bains, France
i do seem to remember these being short, mine just covers my belt line. in all fairness, any other Lee Rider i have had in my life would have been from the early 70's on, and from what i understand when they added the hand warmer pockets the basic "cut" of these changed also? is this true?
there are a couple things that tend to make me think this may have been a second and that is why the condition is so supreme. the horizontal hem above the pocket flaps does not line up properly and the zig-zag stitch running vertically from button hole to button hole seems a bit erratic. those 2 items and the length were basically my only questions.

I'm no expert, but here's my opinion, based on the two jackets that I have right now.

1) These are short jackets, or some would say very short. I wear them with high rise trousers or chinos. Then they just about cover my belt. With modern stuff I'd think they would possibly reach the top of the belt, maybe not even that.

2) On one of my jackets the horizontal hem above the pockets lines up, on the other it does not. Never noticed it before.

3) The zig zag in the front is all over the place on both of them. Never noticed that before, either.

I'd think that these were mass produced items, not expensive, meant for a bit of abuse. Back in those days there were no stitch by stitch Japanese copies (at least I don't remember them) and I, anyway, was happy to get my hands on anything that looked cool.

I'd be happy to buy your jacket, but I'm only 6'0, so it would be big. And I would most certainly be happy to wear one that looks like yours.
 

EmergencyIan

Practically Family
Messages
918
Location
New York, NY
i do seem to remember these being short, mine just covers my belt line. in all fairness, any other Lee Rider i have had in my life would have been from the early 70's on, and from what i understand when they added the hand warmer pockets the basic "cut" of these changed also? is this true?
there are a couple things that tend to make me think this may have been a second and that is why the condition is so supreme. the horizontal hem above the pocket flaps does not line up properly and the zig-zag stitch running vertically from button hole to button hole seems a bit erratic. those 2 items and the length were basically my only questions.

Honestly, I think that you're over analyzing this jacket. It looks just fine, to me. I don't think any of us are going to be able to ease your mind when it comes to your 101-J.

- Ian
 

wcbrown

One of the Regulars
Messages
164
Location
New Castle, PA
i am just trying to get more educated. its hard to find solid info on these. it seems there are a few of you guys with a lot of knowledge about these and i am trying to pick some brains! i love the jacket, its a matter of a little warmer weather now! hopefully, but the way this winter has been.....! ;)
 
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Raul

One of the Regulars
Messages
104
Location
Italy
I resurrect this old thread about Lee 101J jackets as I just bought one.
The jacket has ®MR in the internal label (added in the 70s even though it still has the "101-J" writing that it seems was removed after the 1970), but it has only the ® on the pocket tag (barely visible), the ® only tag was used in the 60s and the MR here was added in the 70s. There is also an union tag inside the left pocket and it has the number in red that according to another thread here was used from 1962 to about 1968 when it became black. So even though this jacket has already the MR in the inside label it could still reasonably be from late 60s, maybe there was a few "transitional" year before both labels had the MR added. Anyone can help to date it more precisely? Does anyone know when ®MR appeared in the internal label? Here is a few pic:
ClWZKot.jpg

RdSdcf1.jpg

qyUcEID.jpg

RGyYf1K.jpg
 

Blackadder

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,607
Location
China
I resurrect this old thread about Lee 101J jackets as I just bought one.
The jacket has ®MR in the internal label (added in the 70s even though it still has the "101-J" writing that it seems was removed after the 1970), but it has only the ® on the pocket tag (barely visible), the ® only tag was used in the 60s and the MR here was added in the 70s. There is also an union tag inside the left pocket and it has the number in red that according to another thread here was used from 1962 to about 1968 when it became black. So even though this jacket has already the MR in the inside label it could still reasonably be from late 60s, maybe there was a few "transitional" year before both labels had the MR added. Anyone can help to date it more precisely? Does anyone know when ®MR appeared in the internal label? Here is a few pic:
ClWZKot.jpg

RdSdcf1.jpg

qyUcEID.jpg

RGyYf1K.jpg
Is it not more likely that older union made labels leftover were used on an early 70s jackets?
http://www.redcloud.co.jp/detail/lee.htm
Number in red yet owner dated it 70s.
https://mydenimblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/denim-classics-lee-storm-rider-jacket/
 
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Raul

One of the Regulars
Messages
104
Location
Italy
Is it not more likely that older union made labels leftover were used on an early 70s jackets?
http://www.redcloud.co.jp/detail/lee.htm
Number in red yet owner dated it 70s.
https://mydenimblog.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/denim-classics-lee-storm-rider-jacket/

Yes, it's possible that for some year they mismatched the labels.
Anyway that guy's Storm Rider jacket is definitely from 70s as it has a printed (and not embroidered) internal label and a ®MR tag on the pocket.
By the way that union label with red number was already used in the 50s so it's difficult to date based on it:
http://www.vintageworkwear.com/2011/07/
I think mine is probably a bit earlier than his Storm Rider (my internal label is not the typical early 70s one that had lost the "101-J" writing, like this the one below). According to Little's book they began to add the MR in late 60s.
In any case until early 70s the quality of the jacket was still very good, about the same of the previous years, it's from the 80s that they began to cut the corners and also changing the patterns of they jackets, so I am very happy with mine whether it's from 1968 or 1972
6D3n3xw.jpg
ESODHHG.jpg
 
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Blackadder

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,607
Location
China
Yes, it's possible that for some year they mismatched the labels.
Anyway that guy's Storm Rider jacket is definitely from 70s as it has a printed (and not embroidered) internal label and a ®MR tag on the pocket.
By the way that union label with red number was already used in the 50s so it's difficult to date based on it:
http://www.vintageworkwear.com/2011/07/
I think mine is probably a bit earlier than his Storm Rider (my internal label is not the typical early 70s one that had lost the "101-J" writing, like this the one below). According to Little's book they began to add the MR in late 60s.
In any case until early 70s the quality of the jacket was still very good, about the same of the previous years, it's from the 80s that they began to cut the corners and also changing the patterns of they jackets, so I am very happy with mine whether it's from 1968 or 1972
6D3n3xw.jpg
ESODHHG.jpg
It becomes model 220 after they lose the 101J on the label. I think one of the major change is the fabric used.
 

Raul

One of the Regulars
Messages
104
Location
Italy
It becomes model 220 after they lose the 101J on the label. I think one of the major change is the fabric used.
So as long as the 101-J was on the label we can infer that the quality of the jacket, and also the fabric, remained pretty much the same?
 

Canuck Panda

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,458
Resuscitating this thread again...

Lee Rider Measurements 013.JPG

Lee Rider Measurements 014.JPG

Lee Rider Measurements 012.JPG


Detail measurements of this jacket
Lee Rider Measurements.jpg


I think this is from the 70s based on the label.
Compared to the Archive Repro from Japan, I think this is same as 42 Japan Archive.

Also as it seems these vintage denim lose their cotton fibers in the washing machine. I could be wrong but that is what it seemed like happened.

Very interesting vintage pattern. Yes the back is shorter but there is an overhang in the front, making the over length technically in the 25" range. Also the wide shoulder and the comparative shorter sleeves still adds up to about 35/36" total sleeve length. There is aggressive taper in the torso and in the sleeves. Nothing like it today. Makes me wonder who were the intended customer back then? Cowboys? Ranchers? Did they wore it as a shell and layered with wool underneath to keep warm? Waiting for mine to hang dry and throw on for a few fit pics. I would need a vintage 44 or modern 40 (medium) I think. I am not sure.
 

TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,166
They're super cool. I've bought two that were very similar so I sold the one that was a hair shorter. It was probably overall better condition, but it's a short jacket to begin with, so that extra half inch or so is big. The poofy upper arm is funky. It's not something I'd wear every day, but more of when I'm in a fun kind of mood. I'm on the hunt for some good repros that slim the arms and maybe go just a tad bit longer. RRL has an amazing one. Of course Iron Heart and other Japanese ones.
 

Canuck Panda

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,458
Some fanboy (me) photo collage of the Rider jacket first:
Lee Riders.jpg

My vintage Rider jacket:
IMG_6593.JPG

IMG_6604.JPG

IMG_6615.JPG


now with a fleece mid layer:
IMG_6504.JPG

IMG_6513.JPG

IMG_6525.JPG


Some of the thoughts that came to my mind during this exercise:
This 70s Riders jacket is size 46. But the hem measurements indicate it's more modern 42/44, or fits modern jean size 34 / 36 (cinched/uncinched). The 21"+ shoulders and the 25" P2P is in the same ball park as my Irvin jacket size 42.
The length is on the shorter side, but no shorter than any of my modern rider's jacket.
The overall sleeves are in the 35" range, measured the shirts way. It just has shorter sleeve length and bigger shoulder overhang.

Crazy ideas are cooking in my head now...
 

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