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Custom Aero advice, please: 3rd times charm?

Tikimel1

New in Town
Messages
25
So, after much hemming and hawing after my last post, I decided to go with the PHWYM in soft black steer.

Fast forward a couple of months, I get a note from Carrie at TB saying that Aero is recommending goat hide for my order. I am not sure why… but now I am really on the fence.

I want the one that is most pliable, as this will be a street jacket and not a riding jacket. I don’t want to delay the order by requesting more samples.

Can anyone advise me on the Aero goat versus soft black steer hide? And which you think will go better on the PHWYM?

Thank you in advance!
 

Guppy

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,008
Location
Cleveland, OH
Goat is generally quite flexible, no break in needed. It's a thinner and lighter leather than steer, but still very strong. From what I've seen, goat doesn't patina or show wear much.

Horween CXL Steer is one of my favorite leathers. It's not soft at first but breaks in very quickly, and looks amazing as it does so. Every bit as good as horse. I don't know what tannage they are using for the soft steer, but I don't think either will be a bad choice. Just depends more on what you prefer.
 

Tikimel1

New in Town
Messages
25
Goat is generally quite flexible, no break in needed. It's a thinner and lighter leather than steer, but still very strong. From what I've seen, goat doesn't patina or show wear much.

Horween CXL Steer is one of my favorite leathers. It's not soft at first but breaks in very quickly, and looks amazing as it does so. Every bit as good as horse. I don't know what tannage they are using for the soft steer, but I don't think either will be a bad choice. Just depends more on what you prefer.
Hmmm… if the goat does not patina much, then it seems like it won’t develop much creasing or character over time. Not sure I want it to still look new in ten years’ time.

Do you know if the is goat very soft? Or is it a waxier feel?
 

Guppy

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,008
Location
Cleveland, OH
Hmmm… if the goat does not patina much, then it seems like it won’t develop much creasing or character over time. Not sure I want it to still look new in ten years’ time.

Do you know if the is goat very soft? Or is it a waxier feel?

That would depend on how it's tsnned and I haven't handled Aero's goat in person to tell. The goat leather I have familiarity with is very flexible, but the surface doesn't feel soft to the touch.
 

Will Zach

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,915
Location
Northeast USA
So, after much hemming and hawing after my last post, I decided to go with the PHWYM in soft black steer.

Fast forward a couple of months, I get a note from Carrie at TB saying that Aero is recommending goat hide for my order. I am not sure why… but now I am really on the fence.

I want the one that is most pliable, as this will be a street jacket and not a riding jacket. I don’t want to delay the order by requesting more samples.

Can anyone advise me on the Aero goat versus soft black steer hide? And which you think will go better on the PHWYM?

Thank you in advance!

Wondering why Aero is recommending goat specifically. If you are looking for patina development and creases, goat is definitely NOT the way to go. Softness and pliability, yes. I'd make sure Aero knows all your requirements.
 

Tikimel1

New in Town
Messages
25
Wondering why Aero is recommending goat specifically. If you are looking for patina development and creases, goat is definitely NOT the way to go. Softness and pliability, yes. I'd make sure Aero knows all your requirements.
I’m not sure why Aero is suggesting the goat. All Carrie’s note said was:

They feel that it is a nicer hide than the Black Steerhide and it will make a really beautiful Premier Highwayman.

I don’t have experience with goat. I do have a vintage Golden Bear in an unknown hide that is incredibly grainy and waxy. Unlike any steer or HH I’ve had in the past. It is very stiff in the sleeves and almost has a plastic-like sheen. I know I do NOT want whatever hide the Golden Bear is. I want a more matte finish and softer hand than it.

I did pick up a Schott that is close to what I am looking for; I believe it is steer.

Maybe I should just let Carrie know I want to stay with the soft steer.
 

Rich22

Practically Family
Messages
550
Location
G.B.
Have you held samples? The goat is very pliable and very tough. I don't see it showing patina with street use, as it's incredibly difficult to mark, even intentionally. It has a peculiar plasticy coating/bonded top layer. I've wondered about exactly what that is before, and it's been discussed here, but I don't believe we got to the bottom of it. It seems like great stuff, but I prefer more natural leather.
 

handymike

I'll Lock Up
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9,926
Location
SoCal

Tikimel1

New in Town
Messages
25
Have you held samples? The goat is very pliable and very tough. I don't see it showing patina with street use, as it's incredibly difficult to mark, even intentionally. It has a peculiar plasticy coating/bonded top layer. I've wondered about exactly what that is before, and it's been discussed here, but I don't believe we got to the bottom of it. It seems like great stuff, but I prefer more natural leather.
I have not held the goat sample. I initially was interested in the badalassi, but after sampling it as well as the soft steer, I decided the steer had the hand feel I was looking for. The fit jacket I received was badalassi and it was stiff and squeaky.
The battered steer was the best, but it was only available in seal/brown.
 

Tikimel1

New in Town
Messages
25
I don't like the pebbley texture of goat.
I understand its benefits, but I would prefer the softer steer. Here is @torfjord's 59er HWYmn in the hide:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/fs-aero-59’er-highwayman-sz-40.103604/

I think it looks great, and I would totally order your jacket in this hide.
I would ask Aero WHY they recommend the goat? Maybe there is a reason, maybe they are out of the softer steer.
This is a great looking hide!

I just emailed Carrie to say I will stick with the steer unless she knows why Aero suggested the goat. Thank you!
 
Last edited:

Tikimel1

New in Town
Messages
25
The battered steer is a great looking hide if you ever want a brown one.
I loved the brown sample of the battered steer. I told myself that a black PHWYM would be my one-and-done custom, but I think we all know that is not true lol
 

nattevagten

One of the Regulars
Messages
199
They feel that it is a nicer hide than the Black Steerhide and it will make a really beautiful Premier Highwayman.
They are probably right... The soft black steerhide sample that I had was really pebbly and had a matt finish; it felt a bit too light as well. To my mind, Aero’s goat has a much more luxurious feel.
 

Tom71

One Too Many
Messages
1,638
Location
Europe
Ok, maybe this is obvious, but I just point it out:

There is a WORLD of a difference between CXL Steer (which is hardly distiguishable from CXL Horse and can be even heavier and more unyielding) and "Battered Steer" (which is extremely soft and rather matte). I haven´t handled "Soft steer", but being described as "midweight", I would assume it is rather unlike the CXL variant.

FWIW: I wouldn´t chose goat for a PHWM. Goat is a prime leather for patterns like the A2 or M422 as it drapes really nicely, but a HWM needs a bit more "structure", IMO.
 

Edward

Bartender
Messages
23,555
Location
London, UK
My regular HWM is in the non-CXL steer, and it is very nice indeed. Same thickness as my FQHH jackets, but much softer drape right from the outset. Certainly not fragile. Similar weight to my Schott 618. A more satin / matte look to it than the CXL. Drape is very much closer to the majority of the 50s and 60s originals in this general style that I have handled, as opposed to the heavier CXL.


Probably worth noting that the Premier Highwayman is a different animal, though. The regular model and the "Original 59er" are both very much a 50s jacket. The Premier is a reimagining, based on the notion of how a jacket of that ilk might have looked had it been designed a quarter of a century earlier, i.e. early to mid thirties. This came from a lot of folks back in the day wanting something with the utilitarian lines of the Highwayman, but in a snugger, less square/boxy shape. There was a time when people would size down drastically or (in the 'anything goes' days) look to make significant alterations to the standard pattern, but to my eye it never quite worked. Another product of this desire for a snugger, simple / non-halfbelt jacket was that one that's a cafe-racer with a shirt-style collar on it. In that context, I would expect the goat to be a recommended hide as it's closer in weight / drape to what was used in a lot of jackets in the 30s than some of the other hides now commonly used.
 

Tom71

One Too Many
Messages
1,638
Location
Europe
My regular HWM is in the non-CXL steer, and it is very nice indeed. Same thickness as my FQHH jackets, but much softer drape right from the outset. Certainly not fragile. Similar weight to my Schott 618. A more satin / matte look to it than the CXL. Drape is very much closer to the majority of the 50s and 60s originals in this general style that I have handled, as opposed to the heavier CXL.


Probably worth noting that the Premier Highwayman is a different animal, though. The regular model and the "Original 59er" are both very much a 50s jacket. The Premier is a reimagining, based on the notion of how a jacket of that ilk might have looked had it been designed a quarter of a century earlier, i.e. early to mid thirties. This came from a lot of folks back in the day wanting something with the utilitarian lines of the Highwayman, but in a snugger, less square/boxy shape. There was a time when people would size down drastically or (in the 'anything goes' days) look to make significant alterations to the standard pattern, but to my eye it never quite worked. Another product of this desire for a snugger, simple / non-halfbelt jacket was that one that's a cafe-racer with a shirt-style collar on it. In that context, I would expect the goat to be a recommended hide as it's closer in weight / drape to what was used in a lot of jackets in the 30s than some of the other hides now commonly used.

Excellent observations here!

Only thing I can add is that the Primo HWM is not as drastically snug as e.g. the Premier Halfbelt. At least the three examples (two of which from CXL Horse) still offered layering possibilities due to moderate armholes and an ok shoulder width.
In that sense, it´s still a proper Highwayman.
 

Edward

Bartender
Messages
23,555
Location
London, UK
Excellent observations here!

Only thing I can add is that the Primo HWM is not as drastically snug as e.g. the Premier Halfbelt. At least the three examples (two of which from CXL Horse) still offered layering possibilities due to moderate armholes and an ok shoulder width.
In that sense, it´s still a proper Highwayman.

Yip.

Also meant to add that the midweight steer my HWM is doesn't age dramatically either: mine is still a solid black, ten years on. Personally, I prefer that - if I wanted brown leather, I'd buy a jacket that's brown to begin with rather than a black that will turn brown - but OP's mileage may vary. I like my jackets to look at most a few years old, i.e. a jacket made in 1930 looking, when broken in, how it might in 1936; others prefer a jacket that will break in to look like a vintage 1930-made jacket would look like now, 92 years on. Horses for courses, an aw tha.
 

Spiney

One of the Regulars
Messages
203
The Premier Highwayman on Aero’s site is in russet goat. I’ve also been told by Holly that the goat is teacore.
 

Tom71

One Too Many
Messages
1,638
Location
Europe
The Premier Highwayman on Aero’s site is in russet goat. I’ve also been told by Holly that the goat is teacore.

Good point! I wasn‘t aware of that, and looking at the picture now, I wouldn’t have thought that either. Looks much less “pebbly” than the very tough goat I’ve handled so far.
 

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