Dating 30s/40s Stetsons by manufacturing label

[alanfgag]

Looking for additional input to see if and how closely we can narrow the transition from this style production label:

1930s:

to this one:

1940s:

Apologies if this has been covered in another dating thread... please feel free to redirect.

thanks!
Alan

 

[alanfgag]

After some conversation with Carouselvic on the dating of the Stetson 5XCB western, I spent a couple of hours behind the sweatbands of my older Stetsons to see if I could narrow down a transition date between these two label versions. I think manufacturing notation might be a more definitive tool for dating than size tags, liner and sweatband imprints, etc. It is possible that old inventory of sweats and size tags were used until depleted (especially during the depression and war years) as a new version was introduced. I think there would have been less likelihood for this fuzziness to occur once a change in manufacturing notation was implemented.

The 5XCB shows the newer style manufacturing label. All of my other older westerns posted on the pre-1940s Stetson Western thread show the older label... with the one exception of the recently acquired 6 3/4 black No.1 quality. Twins no longer... the larger sibling is definitely older than the tiny one with its pebble finish sweatband.

I would guesstimate the transition as somewhere within a year or two on either side of 1940. A couple of hats that surprised me.

The Imperial Stetson features the earlier tag.

This Standard Quality, which I assumed to be late 1930s shows the newer tag

Your thoughts and samples are much appreciated!

 

[Joshbru3]

I will look for some examples that I have collected. I will say that I have often tried to date vintage Stetsons by manufacturing tag and I have noticed that its not an exact science. The "older" style and "newer" style were often used at the same time in many hats during that transition period and seems that there really wasn't any rhyme or reason. I would imagine, they used whatever they had in stock. I could be wrong, but its just my observation.

 

[Joshbru3]

1930's Stetson's


1930s Stetson Equestrian Derby

1930s Stetson Playboy Air Light

1930s Stetson Standard Quality Black

1930s Stetson Standard Quality SZ 7 1/2

Late 1930s Stetson Tyrolean Alpine

Note: This tag is slightly smaller and slightly different shaped than the other 30's hats. This is the first one like this I have encountered.

 

[Joshbru3]

Late 1940's Supper Club Homburg

I believe this tag was used in the late 40's through the early-mid 50's.

Just for reference, I have attached several photos of this early 50's Stetson for comparison.

Early 50's St. Regis

Mid 50's Whippet

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks for sharing these Josh. I have a 1930s black Standard Quality with the same exact stamp!

The older tags with decorative flourish on the side are earlier than the Alpine, which appears to be the same as my Playboy. The numeral font changes here too. Note that yours still records a block and depth marking, where on my Playboy, a single number is stamped just as it is on the later tag in my Stratoliner above.

I think the later label with "do not give this number..." came in earlier than late 1940s... perhaps 1942-44? Both my Vitafelts have the later label.

It would be great to have Feltfan's 1942 dated 5XCB and other hats with dating provenance recorded here too.

 

[Joshbru3]

Thanks for sharing these Josh. I have a 1930s black Standard Quality with the same exact stamp!

The older tags with decorative flourish on the side are earlier than the Alpine, which appears to be the same as my Playboy. The numeral font changes here too. Note that yours still records a block and depth marking, where on my Playboy, a single number is stamped just as it is on the later tag in my Stratoliner above.

I think the later label with "do not give this number..." came in earlier than late 1940s... perhaps 1942-44? Both my Vitafelts have the later label.

It would be great to have Feltfan's 1942 dated 5XCB and other hats with dating provenance recorded here too.

I know that the older tags with decorative flourish were used since the early 1900's, and possibly a little earlier. I do have a very early 1900's Stetson Bowler that has a different tag which I found interesting. Your Playboy and my Alpine do have the same tag, which is very neat. From some interesting conversation in the Pre-1940's thread ( http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?42859-Pre-1940s-Stetson-dress-hats./page21 ) it seems that my alpine was most likely made in the 1938/1939 period and possibly your playboy dates to about the same. Why they went to a small tag I still can't figure out.

I wish I had more early and mid 40's Stetsons to post pictures of, but because my focus is mainly Pre-1940 I just havent bought any. The 50's Stetsons that I have owned, I have either sold or used for conversions.

I'm sure that 30s black Standard Quality is getting much more head time in Buffalo than in Chicago.

 

[alanfgag]

I wish I had more early and mid 40's Stetsons to post pictures of, but because my focus is mainly Pre-1940 I just havent bought any.

All of these hats and marks are fantastic... thanks for posting them. It is that late depression - WWII period that I was hunting in my own searches. Stetson hats (and just about everything else, I guess) emerged after the war with marked differences.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.
Hell, I'm just enjoying seeing pictures of these hats themselves! So great!

 

[alanfgag]

With Josh's great additions, we have three tags and two transitions that appear to have occurred during a stretch of ten years - from the early 1930s to the early 1940s. Can we narrow down the transition years with additional samples? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[alanfgag]

Two Stetson westerns, same block, same crown height

5X Clear Beaver/ late 1930s - early 1940s label

Real Nutria Quality/ mid 1930s or earlier label

 

[alanfgag]

Stetson No. 1 Quality

Black felt, mid 1930s or earlier. Note straight sided size tag (thanks Carouselvic)

Same hat, mid to late 1930s. Note T-shaped size tag and later variant of the three section label

Tan felt, mid 1930s or earlier. No size tag.

Campaign hat, mid 1930s or earlier. T-shaped size tag

 

[Joshbru3]

EBAY PICS-NOT MINE

This hat is date stamped Sept 22, 1944

It appears that the "new" style label was used this early. Possibly earlier.

 

[alanfgag]

Hi Josh,

Thanks for adding these. I recently purchased a 1944 dated Vita-Felt that I expect will also have the newer tag. I would love to have FeltFan's 1942 marked 5XCB label added here. I expect that it has the new tag also as in my 5X which I think is contemporary or earlier. Still hoping we can narrow down these transitions with a little more precision than late 30s - early 40s.

A couple of other notes... it appears that the early uses of the "new" single field label (to differentiate from the 3 field label "Block/Depth/Finish" label, which itself underwent a version change in the mid 1930s) had multiple handwritten entries for block, crown height and finish(?). At some point this transitioned to a single stamped 3 digit number - perhaps the block #? Interestingly, the reorder label remained the same during this early 1930s - early 1940s period, continuing to display the starburst decoration on the sides that was dropped from the red label sometime in the mid-1930s.

Hint, Hint... It would be great to have some additional photos/observations from 1930s - early 1940s Stetsons!

 

[carouselvic]

The Royal Stetson....bowler

Stetson gives the first use date as Sept. 12 1935. They filled for the trademark on Sept. 25 1935. Stetson received their registration Mar. 10 1936, #0333199.

size tag the older gold and black type

 

[alanfgag]

Great addition, Victor - the filing date is in reference to the mark, right? (London/NY/Paris logo)

 

[carouselvic]

Those dates are for The Royal Stetson.

 

[carouselvic]

New York, London, Paris, Philadelphia logo was first used August 1930. Filling and date granted are the same as above with a registration #0333198

 

[alanfgag]

3 playboys - 3 labels

RLK's Stetson Playboy Air-Light - mid 1930s

Stetson Playboy - late 1930s - 1940

Royal Stetson Playboy - post War - 1950

 

[alanfgag]

Stetson Standard Quality Feather Weight - circa 1940

Most recent of the three red manufacturing label... probably close to the transition from the earlier label. Gold printed size tag. Sweat is marked "Soft - Lot 76XX. Price - $7.50.