Dorothy Sayers on Aspects of Masculine Attire

[Sunny]

Yesterday I was reading Sayers' essay "Are Women Human?" and came across this wonderfully witty passage. Miss Sayers is not so much discussing wardrobe as making a point, but it's a delightful read.

From an address given in 1938:

Let us take this terrible business--so distressing to the minds of bishops--of the women who go about in trousers. We are asked: "Why do you want to go about in trousers? They are extremely unbecoming to most of you. You only do it to copy the men." To this we may very properly reply: "It is true that they are unbecoming. Even on men they are remarkably unattractive. But, as you men have discovered for yourselves, they are comfortable, they do not get in the way of one's activities like skirts and they protect the wearer from draughts about the ankles. As a human being, I like comfort and dislike draughts. If the trousers do not attract you, so much the worse; for the moment I do not want to attract you. I want to enjoy myself as a human being; and why not? As for copying you, certainly you thought of trousers first and to that extent we must copy you. But we are not such abandoned copy-cats as to attach these useful garments to our bodies with braces. There we draw the line. These machines of leather and elastic are unnecessary and unsuited to the female form. They are, moreover, hideous beyond description. And as for indecency--of which you sometimes accuse the trousers--we at least can take our coats off without becoming the half-undressed, bedroom spectacle that a man prsents in his shirt and braces."

I'm really not intending to re-ignite any discussion about femininity or anything along those lines; that would be most fftopic: in this forum. I simply wanted to share Miss Sayers' perspective on part of the male wardrobe. I would have been laughing aloud when I read it - except that I was reading during my accounting lecture last night. lol

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Is this the same dorothy sayers of Peter Wimsey fame?

The Whimsy stories contain many many nuggets of invective against the vagaries of the male wardrobe. My favourite is:

"He was the kind of man who would wear a double breasted waistcoat!"

bk

 

[Sunny]

Is this the same dorothy sayers of Peter Whimsy fame?

The Whimsy stories contain many many nuggets of invective against the vagaries of the male wardrobe. My favourite is:

"He was the kind of man who would wear a double breasted waistcoat!"

bk

Yes, indeed. Her wit is priceless. I'm reading Murder Must Advertise again (for probably the dozenth time) and I believe there are some similar comments in it. I'll make a point of sharing them as well.

 

[Dagwood]

Braces are "hideous beyond description"? Oh, the humanity.

That aside, a very witty passage.

 

[Anthony Jordan]

Yes, DLS obviously had a bit of a thing about D/B waistcoats given the number of disparaging comments she placed in Lord Peter Wimsey's mouth concerning them! Then again, Lord Deedes didn't like them very much, so it may have been a common society view of the time.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

they're currently replaying the Wimsey dramatisations from the 70s on BBC radio 7. Free on t'internets . . . (Ian Carmichael is much better on radio than TV. I always thought he was rather too old to play Wimsey.

bk

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Elizabeth Hawes (http://www.upandco.com/hawes.html) was a contemporary of Dorothy Sayers, and had a very similar writing style. In fact, it's sometimes difficult to distinguish one from the other.

Both women were fantastic: forceful, witty, energetic free thinkers who got others to think outside of the box.

.

 

[PenMan]

Her 'Lost Tools of Learning' is one of the most significant (and sadly overlooked) articles on teaching from her century. She was a true 'renaisance man'.

 

[dhermann1]

I seem to recall Lord Peter commenting on some poor chap having a tie and pocket handkerchief that matched. The phrase he used was "Most unfortunate", as I recall. You'll never catch ME making that mistake . . . now.

 

[Sunny]

I came across this last night:

Lord Peter, speaking about a murder suspect:
" '... He writes copy about face-cream and corsets, is the son of a provincial draper, was educated at a grammar school and wears, I deeply regret to say, a double-breasted waistcoat. That is the most sinister thing about him...' "​

And I thought I'd through this tidbit in here. Lord Peter, undercover as "Mr. Bredon," an employee of an advertising agency, changed into evening dress at the office. The cleaning lady worked the elevator for him:

"Mr Bredon the ever-polite, expanded and assumed his gibus during the descent, apparently for the express purpose of taking it off to her when he emerged. In a taxi rolling south-west, Mr Bredon removed his spectacles, combed out his side-parting, stuck a monocle in his eye, and by the time he reached Piccadilly Curcus was again Lord Peter Wimsey."​

I threw in the second sentence merely for the details of spectacles, monocle, and side-parting - a side-parting being, apparently, not favored by Lord Peter, though I cannot fathom why.

But does anyone know what a "gibus" is and how it can be expanded, assumed, and taken off in an elevator? Without looking it up, of course. I gave in and looked it up a couple years ago, on maybe my third time through the book.

The above quotes are from Murder Must Advertise, first published in 1933.

 

[BegintheBeguine]

From its description it must be an opera hat. The word isn't entirely unheard of to me but my dictionary at hand doesn't have it and I don't feel like hauling the big one out. I haven't looked online.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Gibus was the first maker of the collapsible, or crushable, top hat accordng to OED, which contains this quote:

1854 E. Forbes Lit. Papers viii (1855 214 No man in a Gibus ever commanded public awe or private respect.

Lord Peter, speaking about a murder suspect:
" '... He writes copy about face-cream and corsets, is the son of a provincial draper, was educated at a grammar school and wears, I deeply regret to say, a double-breasted waistcoat. That is the most sinister thing about him...' "​

From Murder Must Advertise

Yes, that's the one i was thinking of earlier. Having never read the sories i didnt get it quite right.

bk

 

[Warlock]

Thank you, Sunny, for that marvelous quote from Miss Sayers. I have spent many happy hours wearing out her books containing Lord Peter. I did not know she was also an essayist. Can you tell me where to find her essays?

 

[Orgetorix]

To flip Ms. Sayers' argument around, one could argue (and some do) that trousers are actually more appropriate, anatomically speaking, for women than men.

 

[PenMan]

Warlock,

She wrote many essays, almost all of which are technical academic works. One of them was entitled: 'Are Woman Human?' She, one of the first women to graduate from Oxford, became both a theologian and feminist, along with her poetry and fiction writing.

Here is a brief poem, which--if read as sexual (as people might be tempted today)--would completely miss a far deeper point.

"Christ walks the world again, his lute upon his back, His red robe worn to tatters, his riches gone to rack.

The wind that wakes the morning blows his hair about his face, And his arms and legs are ragged with the thorny briar's embrace,

For the hunt is up behind him, and his sword is at his side. Christ the bonny outlaw walks the whole world wide,

Singing: 'Lady, lady, will you come away with me,
To lie among the bracken, and eat the barley bread?
We shall see new suns arise, in golden far-off skies,
for the son of God and woman has not where to lay his head'."

The most easily obtained collection of her essays is called 'The Whimsical Christian'. It is, once again, related to Bible or theology for the most part, and speaks with that sort of wit and combined depth and breadth of eduation which at one time could be assumed among the well-read, but which renders her works inaccessible for most today. For example, one of the essays expresses her joy in discovering that the Cyrus of Isaiah 45 is the same Cyrus who history teaches ruled the Medes (or was it the Persians?).

On a lighter note, her generation also produced the hilarious P.G. Wodehouse. His 'Heart of a Goof' is some of the best golf writing ever, and clothes matter to his characters.

 

[Sunny]

Thanks for the essay information, PenMan. I've just gotten into her essays with "Are Women Human?" and find that she herself would probably disdain the label of "feminist."

Back to the quotes! Another intriguing point this time.

Mr Tallboy, in charge of forming an office cricket team, has quarreled with coworker Mr Smayle.
"'I'm not going to have him playing in the cricket match, anyhow,' pursued Mr Tallboy, viciously. 'Last year he wore white suede shoes with crocodile vamps, and an incredible blazer with Old Borstalian colours.'"​

This is 1933. Leaving aside the blazer for the moment, what does Mr Tallboy object to about the shoes? Are they simply inappropriate for a cricket match, or are they objectionable at all times? I'm forcibly reminded of Steve Skalla/Moose Malloy in Raymond Chandler's story and novel "Try the Girl" and Farewell, My Lovely. In "Try the Girl," he wore "the loudest clothes I ever saw on a really big man," including "brown suede shoes with explosions in white kid in them," "the worst-looking shoes I ever saw." By the time of Farewell, My Lovely the shoes were "alligator with white explosions on the toes." Both story and novel were written between 1933 and 1940.

Yes, this color combination is reversed; Mr Smayle's are white with brown accent, not brown with white "explosions." Heretofore I've fuzzily assumed that the shoes are flashy to begin with and doubly inappropriate for cricket, but I'd like to present this to the resident experts for analysis.

Coming up: A particularly amusing description of what the office cricket team members actually do wear. lol

 

[Anthony Jordan]

I suspect that the problem would be twofold; firstly, inappropriate to context (white buckskin boots would be appropriate footwear), secondly, flashy (I suspect that two-tones were rarer over here in the UK than in the US and I can't imagine anyone approving of a suede and alligator two-tone, in particular.)

 

[PenMan]

Sunny, I'm ranging off topic here, but thought I would reply to your statement that she wouldn't like being called a feminist. I agree completely that she would not like to identify with certain social phenomena, but meant the term as one who is interested in the realities of being a woman. I suppose I am talking about someone who is 'liberal' in the old-fashioned sense (not left-leaning or a theological liberal). In that sense, every woman, and every man too, should be a feminist and take offense at those structures that suppress somebody because of her gender. I don't mean any of this as political commentary, but as an expression of the dignity of all people as humans, while celebrating the profound differences that make life worthwhile. I met a man once who came from Kenya. He said his family grew immediately when his father converted to Christianity because in his tribe babies were thrown away if the top teeth came in before the bottom, if they were twins, or in many cases if they were girls: these were all thought to bring bad mojo to the tribe. His new view of human life compelled his father to rescue all these children. It is that sort of value system that I was referring to.

Sorry to be so long-winded on a side-point.

 

[Sunny]

Sunny, I'm ranging off topic here, but thought I would reply to your statement that she wouldn't like being called a feminist. I agree completely that she would not like to identify with certain social phenomena, but meant the term as one who is interested in the realities of being a woman. I suppose I am talking about someone who is 'liberal' in the old-fashioned sense (not left-leaning or a theological liberal). In that sense, every woman, and every man too, should be a feminist and take offense at those structures that suppress somebody because of her gender. I don't mean any of this as political commentary, but as an expression of the dignity of all people as humans, while celebrating the profound differences that make life worthwhile. I met a man once who came from Kenya. He said his family grew immediately when his father converted to Christianity because in his tribe babies were thrown away if the top teeth came in before the bottom, if they were twins, or in many cases if they were girls: these were all thought to bring bad mojo to the tribe. His new view of human life compelled his father to rescue all these children. It is that sort of value system that I was referring to.

Sorry to be so long-winded on a side-point.

fftopic: I was afraid that'd get picked up on. I just know what I would think if I'd never read Sayers and heard her described as a feminist. There's really no good label for what she, or I, or you stand for, and feminist is one of the most problematic because it has dozens of meanings. As her essay pounds home, she's about the humanness of all human beings regardless of gender. It grows directly out of her worldview or, as you said, her value system. Thanks for the thoughtful response - I'd just really like to keep this thread on topic. It would make more apropos discussion in a thread such as "Fear of the Feminine."

I suspect that the problem would be twofold; firstly, inappropriate to context (white buckskin boots would be appropriate footwear), secondly, flashy (I suspect that two-tones were rarer over here in the UK than in the US and I can't imagine anyone approving of a suede and alligator two-tone, in particular.)

Aha, that's what I thought! It sounds like Mr Smayle was being particularly egregious. He is characterized, IIRC, as a bit of a dandy. lol

 

[Baron Kurtz]

And remember that Tallboy is a terrible snob, isn't he? "Old Borstalian" would suggest so. I recall him strutting around pretentiously because he's been to "public" (that is, private to the Americans) school. Lord Peter then says something nasty about said school.

His pretentious snobbery may explain the aversion he has to the shoes, and his obsession with the "correct" clothing in general.

bk