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Ever wish western companies would compete?

Carlos840

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,859
Location
London
New Lewis, i don't see how the packaging is inferior to a Japanese jacket:

fWVH6Rc.jpg

dE2JPk8.jpg


I also don't get why this is important, that box and tags where recycled years ago and no one is missing them.

As @Aloysius said, it seems this thread is based on misconceptions...
 

Liveinstyle33

One of the Regulars
Messages
101
Lol, that's why I switched the photo to that damn lizard in the first place. No, I'm not. That's Joan Jett.

Aww hell. I thought maybe in her retirement, she became affiliated with leather jackets (she indeed wore a lot of them) and became a regular on here. LOL

Gullible me.

But why do you call her a damn lizard? Tell me something I don't know about.
 
Messages
15,696
Aww hell. I thought maybe in her retirement, she became affiliated with leather jackets (she indeed wore a lot of them) and became a regular on here. LOL

Gullible me.

But why do you call her a damn lizard? Tell me something I don't know about.

Hahaha no, that's not what I meant. I had Joan's photo as my avatar for the better part of my membership here and while pretty much everyone on the forum recognized the famous rockstar, occasionally I'd get someone asking me if that's me, which is when I switched the avatar to a photo of a monitor lizard. It was only recently that I decided to replace the lizard with Joan again.
 

Liveinstyle33

One of the Regulars
Messages
101
Hahaha no, that's not what I meant. I had Joan's photo as my avatar for the better part of my membership here and while pretty much everyone on the forum recognized the famous rockstar, occasionally I'd get someone asking me if that's me, which is when I switched the avatar to a photo of a monitor lizard. It was only recently that I decided to replace the lizard with Joan again.
Ah, I see.
Well, I know who Joan Jett is, I happen to love 80s music, however all I saw was an attractive face in your avatar, I didn't recognize who that actually was, but now I see it definitely.

Well, I am that occasional someone you are referring to haha. One time you posted a photo of a woman wearing a very heavy double rider leather jacket but her face was obscured. I figured that was the person in the avatar. She is about the size of Joan Jett actually. It was in some thread about what maker of leather jackets is sufficient for fall protection from a motorcycle that was posted a few weeks ago, maybe even up to a month ago.

I figured the avatar was real and that was her, lmao.
 

Spiney

One of the Regulars
Messages
223
Hahaha no, that's not what I meant. I had Joan's photo as my avatar for the better part of my membership here and while pretty much everyone on the forum recognized the famous rockstar, occasionally I'd get someone asking me if that's me, which is when I switched the avatar to a photo of a monitor lizard. It was only recently that I decided to replace the lizard with Joan again.
I may change my one. Everyone thinks I’m the Chrysler Building
 

Blackadder

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,604
Location
China
While there are many nicely made repro's coming out of Japan, the only thing I see them doing better than most makers is marketing.
Funny you should say that. The Japanese brands and collectors do have some loose alliance to promote/set the trend. They all knew each other and many have worked together before. Not to mention the fact that it also involves a few fashion icons in Japan like two members of the group SMAP. But the marketing is aimed at the local market in Japan and not the West. They know they are copying the West and the Western companies have their heritage and resources and their own icons. They aren't that crazy about competing with the Western companies in the global market. RM has had quite a few collaborations or rather had a few items made by the Western companies including Lewis Leather, Chippewa, Corcoran and Mcgregor over the years because of their heritage.


But some Western companies like Levi's and Red Wing did screw up. Running a good thing into the ground with their bottom line etc. corporate thinking.
Levi's Japan a subsidiary/unit of Levi's decided in early 90s to reproduce some classic Levi's products in Japan under a line called Big E. They were not allowed to use the number 501 so they had to call their repros 701, 702 etc. Those repros became big hit in Japan that caught the attention of overseas customers. Levi's HQ decided to take over. At first things were going more than well. Repros made in their US factory using Cone Mills vintage loom Selvedge denim. Then they closed their last factory in Valencia and outsourced the production to other US factories. They even moved the production of some of the models to Europe. Look at it now. It came around in a circle. Produced in Japan with Japanese denim. Rumour is they are discontinuing the LVC next year.
Another more recent example is Red Wing. Red Wing Japan, a subsidiary on its own has been responsible for bringing to the market some really good looking boots like the 9060, 8075 and 9268. Well, there would not be any more of those because RW HQ decided to let a sportswear dealer in China run things in Asia which include RW Japan. The said dealer opened the first RW store in HK in 2019 selling only Moc Toes and Iron Rangers. They closed that store after the lease has expired. Now they are back to selling RW Moc Toes in a "RW Corner" of their chain sneakers stores.
 
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willyto

One Too Many
Messages
1,588
Location
Barcelona
While there are many nicely made repro's coming out of Japan, the only thing I see them doing better than most makers is marketing.
What marketing? I have never seen any publicity by them… it's the resellers that may hype things up.

In fact they do very short runs of stuff, they don't make it possible to buy from outside of Japan and the European/North American stores hike up prices to the moon.

The only place where you might see something is Clutch Japan/Men's File but that's a Japanese magazine.
 
Messages
15,319
Location
Chicago
What marketing? I have never seen any publicity by them… it's the resellers that may hype things up.

In fact they do very short runs of stuff, they don't make it possible to buy from outside of Japan and the European/North American stores hike up prices to the moon.

The only place where you might see something is Clutch Japan/Men's File but that's a Japanese magazine.
Instagram is chock full. I assume you don't have an account? If you follow any number of brands or tags you will see a very specific, targeted "branding". I assume the masses find their introduction to this hobby through that platform. I also think it's very well done. Most "western" brands invest far less time and effort into it. A perfect example is Fine Creek. The jackets look absolutely nothing like the IG photos, because those jackets have been heavily processed via waterboarding, bondage and other means of artificial enhancement.
IG is marketing in it's purest form, and it's nothing more than that IMO.
 
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Blackadder

My Mail is Forwarded Here
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3,604
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China
Instagram is chock full. I assume you don't have an account? If you follow any number of brands or tags you will see a very specific, targeted "branding". I assume the masses find their introduction to this hobby through that platform. I also think it's very well done. Most "western" brands invest far less time and effort into it. A perfect example is Fine Creek. The jackets look absolutely nothing like the IG photos, because those jackets have been heavily processed via waterboarding, bondage and other means of artificial enhancement.
IG is marketing in it's purest form, and it's nothing more than that IMO.
Yes thanks to the internet and forum like ours, some of the new brands have gained international recognition very quickly, much quicker than RM or FW. RM was established in 1987 and it took them quite some time to reach overseas. The current owner of RM is a rare breed who has had his eyes on the international market. (He is a collector but more an investment than interest. The few times I have seen him, he was always wearing sweatshirt and sweat pants. and those are not vintage Champion.) He has been going around to Inspiration and has finally made a major push in or around 2015 2016 by talking the few dealers around the world like Blue and Green to open RM only store. Dealer in Nagoya Japan also opened a RM only store, probably the first RM store in Japan not owned by RM themselves. RM invested in RM London themselves. I think the then dealer in Hong Kong lost his dealership to a newcomer because he refused to do so or at least refused to increase his commitment.
What marketing? I have never seen any publicity by them… it's the resellers that may hype things up.

In fact they do very short runs of stuff, they don't make it possible to buy from outside of Japan and the European/North American stores hike up prices to the moon.

The only place where you might see something is Clutch Japan/Men's File but that's a Japanese magazine.
Save for RM, it has been the resellers or customers who hyped things up in the West. As said these brands didn't think they can compete in the West. Then all of a sudden, they are getting orders from overseas. Look at the IH forum. Set up by a reseller. I can imagine Addict being shocked by the interest. He was like thinking WTH, don't you Westerners have the real thing. Fountainhead is probably the only brand who started with overseas market in mind likely after seeing the unexpected success of FCL and Addict etc.
 
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Edward

Bartender
Messages
23,725
Location
London, UK
New Lewis, i don't see how the packaging is inferior to a Japanese jacket:

fWVH6Rc.jpg

dE2JPk8.jpg


I also don't get why this is important, that box and tags where recycled years ago and no one is missing them.

As @Aloysius said, it seems this thread is based on misconceptions...


Eastman used to do similar. Maybe still do, I don't know - they priced me out of their market long ago. TBh, I'm of the same philosophy as yourself. Nice packaging is nice and I enjoy seeing it done well (I like what Cathcart do with their stuff too), but ultimately if they told me I could have it in a plain paper bag with no brand on it for a fiver less, I'd take the saving every time. I suspect these things matter more if the market is OTR, mainstream fashion. Aero for one have never really gone in for advertising at all (social media aside, but they were long established by then); if their brand was built on word of mouth and they already had people before they saw the packaging, I don't know that it makes much difference.
 

Edward

Bartender
Messages
23,725
Location
London, UK
Marketing yes 100% combined with those small details I mentioned, tags, labels and so forth.

Schott has the manpower and infrastructure to put out a killer line of vintage jackets with unique leathers if they could just implement it correctly. Unlike the Shinki with the split back they recently put out.
The restoration hardware racer jacket was a nice jacket, must be a reason why they didn’t continue to produce it.

I wonder if Schott outsells most brands in Japan with their manufacture capability

I remember that Restoration Hardware jacket when it appeared on here back when. I have a vague recollection it was considered expensive; I seem to recall either the price or the marketing or both being somewhat poopooed. I liked the look of it myself, something appealed about how utilitarian it was. I also liked the idea of it being unlined (views on that also varied as memory serves).

Ultimately, though, I don't think Schott are interested in a niche. Similar to Alpha having dropped their 'Reproduction' series back in the day. These companies are seeking a mass-market where they just wouldn't shift the units in the sort of thing we like round here. It's a shame but that's the way of it. I like my 618 a lot. Wouldn't pay for it what they cost now (almost double what they were about a decade ago, in significant part down to the increasing worthlessness of the pound against the dollar), but it's nice jacket. Still got half an eye out for a good, used 118 and/or 613 one day, maybe. I do remember Rufus had a really nice, old Schott D-pocket, which is not a style I've seen them do in a very long time. What I am interested in seeing at some point, though, is the Schott engineers now that those are getting harder to find at a more affordable price from other brands.
 

Canuck Panda

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,458
I got acquainted with every brand from this place. There isn't a leather jacket brand that I know of that has not been talked about here. So in many ways this place is at the center of the leather jacket universe.

I get the most push feeds about Fine Creek on instagram and youtube, they've got multiple accounts dishing out similar content and it just runs in a loop. They are doing a better marketing job than Himel himself who only has two accounts and some youtube feed. FCL has at least four that I know of and then some. Most other brands have zero to one account.

Freewheelers is just expensive, and that is a great marketing strategy on its own. No offense to the FW fans, but this is just how I see it.

Same with other western brands that ask for $2000 plus for a jacket. When I search for things I always search by most expensive to least expensive. Just to get a feel of what's out there. The most I've paid for a brand new jacket was the Langlitz Cascade, and the most I've paid for an used jacket was the La Brea. I like both but I would not consider either my top 3 favorites. So higher prices do not guarantee higher satisfaction for me.

I do think it's worth it to look at jackets from every origin. Everyone is looking for different things. I didn't know what I wanted until I have it or lost it.

As for packaging I was big on this at the beginning. But after "recycling" all the extra packaging it felt excessive to me. The extra compressed pulp didn't make the jacket a better jacket. The extra packaging only fulfilled my material greed and even that was very short lived before the hassle of recycling kicked in.

There isn't an octagon ring where the jackets from the east can fight to the death against the jackets from the west. They are just jackets that I liked and ones I didn't liked. All very subjective and would mean nothing to the next person who has a different opinion.
 

willyto

One Too Many
Messages
1,588
Location
Barcelona
Instagram is chock full. I assume you don't have an account? If you follow any number of brands or tags you will see a very specific, targeted "branding". I assume the masses find their introduction to this hobby through that platform. I also think it's very well done. Most "western" brands invest far less time and effort into it. A perfect example is Fine Creek. The jackets look absolutely nothing like the IG photos, because those jackets have been heavily processed via waterboarding, bondage and other means of artificial enhancement.
IG is marketing in it's purest form, and it's nothing more than that IMO.
I use it daily and I have never seen any add for Japanese leather jackets.

I also don’t follow any store other than Clutch Café in London. I do follow Freewheelers and a few Japanese guys that wear the obscure styles that one can’t find.

Also, I don’t follow “influencers” who get paid to promote stuff. I hate that.

I think the algorithm is targetting you!
 
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Blackadder

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,604
Location
China
I remember that Restoration Hardware jacket when it appeared on here back when. I have a vague recollection it was considered expensive; I seem to recall either the price or the marketing or both being somewhat poopooed. I liked the look of it myself, something appealed about how utilitarian it was. I also liked the idea of it being unlined (views on that also varied as memory serves).

Ultimately, though, I don't think Schott are interested in a niche. Similar to Alpha having dropped their 'Reproduction' series back in the day. These companies are seeking a mass-market where they just wouldn't shift the units in the sort of thing we like round here. It's a shame but that's the way of it. I like my 618 a lot. Wouldn't pay for it what they cost now (almost double what they were about a decade ago, in significant part down to the increasing worthlessness of the pound against the dollar), but it's nice jacket. Still got half an eye out for a good, used 118 and/or 613 one day, maybe. I do remember Rufus had a really nice, old Schott D-pocket, which is not a style I've seen them do in a very long time. What I am interested in seeing at some point, though, is the Schott engineers now that those are getting harder to find at a more affordable price from other brands.
Schott and Red Wing would do anything if the dealer place a min order. Difference is Schott Japan is still around and Red Wing Japan is now run by a sneakers chain from China. We may still see some interesting Schott jackets ordered by Schott Japan, there is very little chance that we will see something like the RW 8075 again.

Alpha on the other hand is only in the street style market now like Levi's.
 
Messages
15,319
Location
Chicago
I use it daily and I have never seen any add for Japanese leather jackets.

I also don’t follow any store other than Clutch Café in London. I do follow Freewheelers and a few Japanese guys that wear the obscure styles that one can’t find.

Also, I don’t follow “influencers” who get paid to promote stuff. I hate that.

I think the algorithm is targetting you!
Could well be! But ads in the traditional sense is not what I mean by marketing. If you look at the *official* accounts for companies like Y'2, Fine Creek, Real McCoy I think you will see what I mean. They do a better job photographing, stylizing and the overall presentation of their product than brands like Schott, Vanson, or Johnson Leathers.

In my opinion IG is literally nothing more than a giant advertisement, in some way, shape or form...everything on IG is being sold. The commodity can be fairly straight forward, or it is camouflaged.
 

Damon141

Practically Family
Messages
766
Be sure NOT to follow Fjorde lol. Looks like he was paid by aliexpress.

View attachment 468740 View attachment 468739
He was really pushing that Top Gun jacket and clearly reaping the benefits of exposure, atleast in his mind.
But imagine having a nice collection as his and pushing aside those jackets and say yes this is the one, the AliExpress special

My algorithm is Fine Creek, Y2, and so much 666 Lewis Leather copies it makes me sick, the people behind that 666 brand must have a little money because they seem to be everywhere.


But alas in North America we will have to suffice with bespoke brands like Goodwear, Langlitz, Himel Bros, and along with Vanson and Schott for more accessible options.

Then in Europe you have your Lewis Leather, Thedi, Aero and the bespoke Fields.

I know there are more here and there

New Lewis, i don't see how the packaging is inferior to a Japanese jacket:

fWVH6Rc.jpg

dE2JPk8.jpg


I also don't get why this is important, that box and tags where recycled years ago and no one is missing them.

As @Aloysius said, it seems this thread is based on misconceptions...

Lewis Leather had great packaging, remember I ordered one and just had terrible luck with the timing of RIP’s departure and they couldn’t figure out my order, just bad timing and I’m sure they are GTG now.
Packing is not necessary for some but just mainstream it is, type unboxing into YouTube and you see people making serious money by unboxing items. Companies like Apple were one of the first I remember to take packaging to another level.

It’s alright to be simple but I looked at your Freewheelers LaBrea thread so many times just amazed at the details that they thought to include. I know you have others just as nice like the Lost Worlds but that Freewheelers is just amazing even if it is more fashion oriented.
 

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