Fit question

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by jadub, Jul 9, 2021.

  1. jadub

    jadub One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Saco, Maine
    I have a snug fitting PHWM. Would some of you fit gurus please advise me on how much bigger I should go if I want a looser fit that doesn’t turn into a sack. Often people don’t include a waist measurement in listing but I imagine it’s pretty important. Shoulders least important and P2P most important. My PHWM is 21 P2P. Should I be looking at 22 P2P, 22.5? In other words will an inch make a big difference regarding fit or will it be subtle? Thanks for helping me avoid a future mistake!
     
  2. El Marro

    El Marro Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,840
    Location:
    California
    I think adding an inch to the P2P makes the jacket noticeably roomier. Out of curiosity, what is you chest measurement? I usually shoot for a P2P that is 3.5” to 4.5” larger than my chest measurement. This gets me a fit thet I like without becoming sloppy
     
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  3. jglf

    jglf One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    USA
    In my opinion an inch in the chest will make a noticeable difference. I feel that waist measurement is also important in getting that V-taper but you may be limited on certain boxy patterns.

    I feel that first you need to understand your body type and then decide on what kind of fit do you want. After that you have to find a jacket with a pattern design that fits your criteria.

    Any pics for reference?
     
  4. jadub

    jadub One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Saco, Maine
    If I recall correctly it’s about 42” on inhale. So if I’m looking at a 21” P2P I should double it and add 3.5-4.5”? That would be about a 23” P2P? I’ve had one with 23” and found it quite loose. Am I getting this right?
     
  5. Peacoat

    Peacoat Bartender Bartender

    Messages:
    5,521
    Location:
    South of Nashville
    Don't forget that the p2p is 1/2 of the chest circumference of the jacket. If the p2p is increased from 22" to 23" the circumference of the jacket is now 2" larger, which is quite an increase.

    And please remember that when measuring a jacket, we measure the p2p.* When measuring our chest, we use the measurement around the chest (circumference of the chest). We never refer to our own chest circumference as a p2p. That's reserved for the jackets.
    ______
    * We take the measurement of the p2p and double it to get the approximate circumference of the jacket.
     
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  6. jadub

    jadub One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Saco, Maine
    Here's a link to a post I did about my PHWM.
    https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/vincenza-chapter-one.103967/
    I like the fit but at first I was very nervous that the jacket would never relax enough. It has but just. It's prompted me to wonder what kind of difference 1 additional inch would make.

    Good point Peacoat! Somehow that little fact about 1" equaling 2" around slipped my mind. It makes sense that the extra inch would be quite noticeable.

    Thank you for your responses. I appreciate it.
     
    Brandrea33 likes this.
  7. MrProper

    MrProper One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,811
    Location:
    Europe
    for me a perfect fit and I wouldn't change anything. You will notice 1 inch. From the
    additional inch could easily be 1.5", because of the tolerance that aero reserves.
     
    jadub likes this.
  8. dudewuttheheck

    dudewuttheheck My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,248
    It's not just about about measurements, but also about pattern and fit. I had an Aero A-1 with a 22"p2p and 18" shoulders which felt way too tight in the chest and shoulders while a Freewheelers jacket I own is 21.25"p2p and 18" shoulders and was noticeably more comfortable and easier to move in for me. I'm not saying that certainly this jacket doesn't fit you, but some patterns just don't work for some people. Just keep this in mind.

    Also, while I agree that p2p is more important than shoulders, the shoulders or the waist or something else could be the issue. Plus, as others have pointed out, Aero have fairly wide tolerances in their measurements so if you ask for 1" more, you could get even more than that quite easily.
     
  9. Monitor

    Monitor

    Messages:
    14,077
    Adding or subtracting a single inch to a chest circumference might not be an option, at least not with Aero. And many other makers for that matter.
    I wouldn't count on any of them altering their pattern to such a small degree - Primarily because it is a very difficult thing for a machinist to do, which is why many makers always warn about some tolerance in their sizing (usually +/- 0.5") - plus it wouldn't make much of a difference. You would in all probability need size up entirely to get a roomier jacket. I think you could easily war a Highwayman size larger than the one you got, without sacrificing any aspect of how well it fits you.
     
    jadub likes this.
  10. Carlos840

    Carlos840 I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    4,337
    Location:
    London
    Here is the same jacket in two different sizes.
    The 42L has 22.5" p2p and 20.5" bottom hem, the 44 has 23.5" p2p and 21" bottom hem.
    Both are the same length as the 42L was specced to be the length of a 44R.

    IMO in wear the difference is about the thickness of a thick jumper.
    I can wear the 42L in a T-Shirt or a thin jumper, with that the 44 is a bit big, i can't fit two thin jumpers or a single thick jumper under the 42L, it is too tight.
    I can wear the 44 with two thin jumpers layered comfortably or a thick jumper, it feels the same as wearing the 42L in a T-shirt.

    To me the 44 is a winter layering jacket, the 42L is a single layer jacket.

    42L:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    44:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Saying that, LW patterns are IMO very well designed and i can literally wear a 40,42 and 44 of the same model without feeling like i am wearing a jacket that is far too small of far too big. (My brother has a size 40 J-23)
    I cannot guarantee that Aero patterns will act the same, in my experience they are far less forgiving if you get sizing "wrong".

    Edit: i also have Aeros with 24.5" p2p and they don't really feel more comfortable or allow better range of motion or room for more layers, they are just designed with a larger pit to pit to start with and increasing that measurement would only make them fit like bags...
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2021
  11. Al 916

    Al 916 One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    228
    Location:
    GB
    Jumper sizes are a terrific guide - thanks

    and with all due respect, you need bigger doors..
     
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  12. Bfd70

    Bfd70 Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,806
    Location:
    Chicago
    I agree with @dudewuttheheck . The issue is more the pattern. I had a very good fitting aero 1/2 belt but the design just doesn’t afford much mobility. Re your pmhw it does look AWESOME. I saw the pick and immediately wanted one (again).
     
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  13. jglf

    jglf One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    USA
    I feel the OP PMHW looks a little tight. Doesn’t look like he has good mobility in it. Maybe a Premier 30’s HB in a larger size would fit better as it tapers more to the waist.
     
  14. Tom71

    Tom71 One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,132
    Location:
    Europe
    I believe it´s worthwhile to try on a certain number of jackets. Measure the one´s you feel (not look!!) best for you and do some measurements. You will probably end up with a tolerance of ca. 0,5" in all relevant aspects (at least this is my experience).
    You can then play around these measurements when trying out different leather (e.g.: a midweight leather works at the lower end of the P2P range where say a CXL jacket will still feel too tight/restrictive.).

    Just echoing what others have said: It's vital to understand the way certain makers work to allow for the unavoidable variance in the manufacturing.
    If you talk to them, the machinist will be able to aim at the upper/lower end of the tolerance and will pretty much always get the fit right for you, in my experience.

    Sidenote: Your PHWM looks the bomb. Model-Material! Leeds me to suspect that it may indeed be a tiny bit on the tight side...
     
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  15. jadub

    jadub One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Saco, Maine
    Thank you all very much. It all makes sense. I love coming here for the eye candy and the knowledge, and because “there is nothing stupider than someone else’s hobby”. Unless of course you’re hanging with people who love what you love! Then it’s party time!
     
  16. dwilson

    dwilson One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    LA
    Yeah this is why buying a jacket online can be kind of tough. I have an Iron Heart denim trucker with 44cm shoulders that I have zero tightness in the shoulders. My 47cm shoulder Flat Head cafe racer I can feel my shoulders butting up against the seams. It makes the whole process feel a tad crapshooty at times.
     
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  17. handymike

    handymike I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    9,153
    Location:
    SoCal
    Nothing beats trying it on in person!
     
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  18. Canuck Panda

    Canuck Panda Practically Family

    Messages:
    657
    Your PHWM looks very good. And I know exactly what you mean when you say you want an extra inch in the chest but same tight waist, for comfort. But this is NOT gonna happen!
    If you are looking for comfort, look else where. I have Aero Aero 22” to 24.5” P2P. None are more comfy than the other. I kept buying them because of the leather, and the way they look, not the way they feel. I would also rate CXL and Vicenza in the same league as Shinki Aniline, one tiny step below Lewis sheepskin. Sorry just had to throw that shade in there.
    CD0A9A6A-C1C0-4302-B088-058B09DF60B3.jpeg 0895CC4C-208E-4B35-99B8-D8DE2BBD5954.jpeg F7E32AAF-7E60-4A57-9A3B-AECC37403DB3.jpeg 69372082-1B00-4F84-AA6E-7CA1D80E3E64.jpeg F5B8B160-14AB-4837-9C8A-873EF99D36F4.jpeg BF7B535A-A18F-4C9E-8668-1A10E333DCD4.jpeg
     
  19. jadub

    jadub One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    Saco, Maine
    Wow, well that certainly throws the doors open! So if I understand you, the style/pattern of the jacket is actually more important than the size, P2P speaking anyway.

    Sorry, I’m not familiar enough with your tastes to understand the shade comment. Seems you either really like Lewis sheep skin or really don’t? I do understand what throwing shade means but I’ve not heard someone dislike Shinki (specifically aniline dye) and CXL to such a degree, if that’s what your saying. I do get the general impression that Vic isn’t everyones favorite. I personally do like my PHWM however. I look forward to having it for many years and seeing it age, assuming I’ll always be able to fit into it.

    Amazing collection of great fitting jackets BTW.
     
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  20. Monitor

    Monitor

    Messages:
    14,077
    Infinitely more important, yeah. In fact, I've stopped looking at numbers and that's after nearly a decade spent figuring out leather jackets.
    Pattern is the most important aspect of any leather jacket and if Aero doesn't work for you, if it feels uncomfortable... Well, I'm afraid you're going to have to turn elsewhere.

    Then come the proportions of the jacket. Even a wide, baggy jacket with a lot of room in the chest/waist can look great on you if it's the correctly proportioned. And, it'll feel more comfortable, too.

    Last come the numbers; Pit to pit, shoulder width, etc. and while they can help you out figuring out what your size might be, they're nowhere near as important as the pattern / cut and proportions.

    Check out @Carlos840's collection. He's got jackets in a wide range of styles and sizes and each fits him just about perfectly well, because he's sticking to makers that know how to build a comfortable jacket and knows exactly what works for him & what doesn't.
     
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