Freewheelers rude black wear and tear patina etc

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by Kuro, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. Kuro

    Kuro A-List Customer

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    All,

    Who has Freewheelers rude black leather that shows some age they can share?

    I understand it is a grey core with black on the front and back. I am curious what the grey looks like when the black is worn?

    I don't find many photos of aged Freewheelers... The one I did find is not detailed enough. Perhaps the grey still looks black, just a bit lighter?

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  2. Kuro

    Kuro A-List Customer

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    This is the most distressed photo I have found.

    13q3y4qy4_R.jpg
     
  3. Guppy

    Guppy My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    I can let you know, eventually, someday.
     
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  4. ton312

    ton312 I'll Lock Up

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    LOL. To my knowledge this brand hasn’t been around that long so examples with any real wear might be hard to find. Is there not a Japanese IG page with a guy mixing cement in one? I know there’s the snow diver. Perhaps a guy mowing his lawn? Jorts and FW? Wrapped up in bungee cords...surely there is.
     
  5. Kuro

    Kuro A-List Customer

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    I kind of get it. The lack of distressed photos of Freewheelers jackets does in a way speak volumes. I feel like the intent of my question was missed though.

    I am not a patina junkie. I didn't buy into it for patina possibilities. It is my understanding that this leather, with a core of a different color than the outer layers, was designed to patina quickly. Take this as you will. Again I did not get into it for this feature, it is part of the whole package.

    I prefer jackets that are dyed all the way through the same color, but that was not a choice for me. As it stands, I was curious what this is going to look like in other people's examples. I know the brand has been around long enough that surely someone has rubbed through the black in an area that exposes the core.

    If this is not the case, then I am even more happy about the durability of the black staying black.
     
  6. Carlos840

    Carlos840 Call Me a Cab

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    The belt of my LaBrea is showing the undercoat, which is a light grey, it looks pretty cool.
    Imagine the classic beige teacore effect, but in grey.
    I'm away from it for a couple weeks, but i will take a picture when i can.
     
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  7. puiyc1203

    puiyc1203 New in Town

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    Unlike tea core, it is rude black, which has deeper penetration and eveness.
    It is hard to find an aged fw rude black jacket since, 1st, the leather is pretty hard to break in, let alone aging, 2nd, unlike vintage black with black surface and tea core, it has black dye on both the surface and the core, therefore its color change is not easily to be spot. 3rd, as I observe for this several years, there is an active 2nd hand market for freewheelers jacket in China, with the app xianyu, hence, most of people wore it for couple of months and sell it to 2nd hand market before it starts break in, it is hard to find an aged fw jacket especially rude black.

    I personally prefer rude black than tea core. In fact both of them are not difficult dyeing technique. And one more thing, startint 2020, fw would rise the price of the three leathertogs, and they change to different tanning technique, the new leathers tend to be softer and brighter, not sure if tea core or rude black. You could do some research in some japanese websites or talk with fw's worldwide agents, they could have more hints on these.

    hope this help.
     
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  8. willyto

    willyto Practically Family

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    The fact remains that most enthusiast can’t wear only a single jacket.

    If one doesn’t wear these jackets often it’s impossible for them to break in.

    I was very tempted to purchase the one in the classifieds but I would have to sell most of my things then. Which would probably be worth it and just wear the FW.
     
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  9. Carlos840

    Carlos840 Call Me a Cab

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    This isn't accurate, Rude black is not dyed black all the way through, it is a black top coat on a grey hide, and thus will wear like a tea core, but showing grey rather than beige. You just have to look at the leather zipper pulls to see that, the mid layer is grey not black.
    It is not hard to break in at all, it takes very little rubbing for the top coat to wear through and the grey to show through.
    My LaBrea is clearly showing grey through the top coat at the belt, i will post pictures next week.

    There is a Shinki on offering that is black all the way through, Himel uses it and calls it oil tan, that is 100% black, but it isn't rude black.

    Edit: if you look at the pics of mine you can clearly see the grey center section on the zipper pulls and the throat latch:
    https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/freewheelers-labrea.94219/
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
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  10. 58panheadfan

    58panheadfan A-List Customer

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    As I wrote in another thread:

    I asked FW about their black shinki horsehide they used, here's the answer:

    "We're making a few kind of 'Black' color in our lineup of horse leather
    jacket.

    The first one is 'Rude Black'. For a start, dye the leather Dark Gray color, and dye it again Black from the surface and the back side. We call it 'Rude Black'. The second one is 'Vintage Black'. Dye the leather Dark Brown color, and dye it again Black in the same way as Rude Black. 'Vintage Black' is like it. The third one is 'Blackjack', dye the leather Red Brown color, and dye it again black from the surface. 'Blackjack' is it."


    As you can see also the dyeing process is very time-consuming. They dyed it twice! FW answer indicates it's over dyed which mean the very base dye is a light brown base as usual when leather is veg-tanned. I don't know what kind of black top coat* was used... semi-aniline or pigment finish. If the top coat is more than 0,15 mm, it should declared as pigment finish. If I remember correctly, somewhere I read it is a pigment finish...

    *Depending on what kind of top coat was used, influences the gloss level... it's also possible to add some matting stuff at the pigment finish to get a satin finish.

    I belive their Deerskin is dyed thru in black version, called Jet Black (used in e.g. Sunset, Journeyman, Darius, Gold Digger Jackets).
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
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  11. puiyc1203

    puiyc1203 New in Town

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    @58panheadfan has made an explanation. I would draw some quotes for better clarification.
    This year they made the black jack special edition again, and drew a comparison between rude black and black jack, i quote it as below
    Translated by google translate

    The black of [La Brea] is usually planned in RUDE BLACK (black with a core dyed (black on the back side-black on the cut side)), but this season (in the end, it is a personal hobby) Made with "BLACK JACK" (black with reddish-brown core) used in speed masters and dust bowls.


    Left = RUDE BLACK (core dyed black)
    Right = BLACK JACK (red brown core black)

    Since [RUDE BLACK] is dyed black from the core, the back of the leather is black and the cross section of the leather is gray. It can be said that it is a black color that does not give noticeable deterioration even if the surface color peels off.

    [BLACK JACK] is colored with black on the core (substrate) that feels strongly reddish compared to VINTAGE BLACK (brown brown) used in Malholand and Qaboos, so the back of the leather and the cross section of the leather are It has a reddish-brown color like wine red. BLACK JACK is also designed so that the black color on the surface is easier to fade than VINTAGE BLACK (brown black), and it is also a feature of BLACK JACK that the color of the interlining is easy to come out due to rubbing and atari. (* It is not black so that the color of the groundwork can be seen through)


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    In the case of ludo black coloring, the leather base is not cored but cored black, so even if you are familiar with it, it will not turn brown due to friction or rubbing. Unlike blackjack coloring, it remains dark black, but I think you can enjoy a hard and modern impression forever.


    [​IMG]


    Hope this is clear. Normally, we have tea core, rude black and red tea core (black jack). Rude black is like staining the hide, while tea core is dyeing the surface with black, with tea color on the core, red tea core only in special editions.
    And this is the reason i prefer rude black than tea core, i prefer that kind of darkness black instead of aging black, meanwhile, blackjack in 2020 ver. is much more expensive.
     
  12. Carlos840

    Carlos840 Call Me a Cab

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    Can you just look at the picture you posted?
    The mid layer of the wrist gusset is clearly grey not black.
    If you also read what you posted it clearly says: "The cross section of the leather is GRAY." (sic)

    Both the pictures and the text you posted contradict what you are trying to prove, so does my personnal experience...

    I have two rude black Freewheelers jackets, they are grey in the center not black!
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  13. puiyc1203

    puiyc1203 New in Town

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    I do spot that grey bro.
    Hard to admit, but I think you're right though. I have browsed different Japanese website, some descriptions tell black core from core to shell, other tells grey core. I think it's unnecessary to dye the cross section only for grey if you have a black core.

    The only way to prove it is cut small piece of the gusset to see if still grey. But it is a total waste of this jacket.

    As the description, I personally still don't believe that it would exhibit grey core that easy, as they deliberately promote red tea core relative to rude black unless you have rubbed it that hard. Fast aging is contradicted to what they advocated in this ver. of la Brea. I have to have mine for a deep look first.

    According to my understanding, the production of tea core they have tea color dyeing on the hide, and have chemical sealing on this layer, then continue on the surface black dyeing. For the normal tea core, full grain leather ages would have that black layer gradually drop off. One of understanding I come up with is, they use grey dyeing in the core but stain with black then, hence this black has deeper permeability than that black of normal tea core. As it ages in rude black, this black should stand for quite a while.
     
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  14. 58panheadfan

    58panheadfan A-List Customer

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    Do you have a Link about infos you posted above? Thx! :)
     
  15. puiyc1203

    puiyc1203 New in Town

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    thewildone.jp
    realmoon.co.jp
    avenuewebstore.com
    the-rising.co.jp
    You could have much more of these stores in rakuten jp
     
  16. Carlos840

    Carlos840 Call Me a Cab

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    Or you could just trust someon who has worn one quit a bit and is telling you that the top coat wears of easily and the grey mid layer will show through.
    The idea that they would cut the leather and then dye the edges grey is insane. I have cut the little patch they glue on the zipper prong in half and that was still grey on the edges.

    I will post pics of my belt next week, you will see, it is grey.

    Maybe wear your LaBrea a little and see what happens?

    Edit: I'm not trying to be rude, but it feels like you are holding a red apple in your hand trying to convince me it is green, whilst i have a red apple in my hand knowing it is red.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
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  17. 58panheadfan

    58panheadfan A-List Customer

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    Thank you! I was asking about Link or site you found rude black vs. black jack informaton, exclusively. Otherwise I am +20yrs in japanese clothing since rakuten was only available in japanese language ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  18. puiyc1203

    puiyc1203 New in Town

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    I have told you already in my last reply, it is meaningless for further debate on this. Your speculation based on your jacket, mine based on my research. If it is stained with black instead of pre-sealing on the core, grey core, tea core, red core is pointless. And expecting fast aging and color change is pointless too. Anyway, this debate ends here.
     
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  19. puiyc1203

    puiyc1203 New in Town

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    https://www.thewildone.jp/item/freewheelers-labrea-leathertogs-blackjack_horsehide/

    I browsed rakuten jp using vpn Japan ip, if needed you could have a try. You could find more of these stores in instagram too searching #freewheelers or #レザージャケット But i think these websites are informative enough.
     
  20. 58panheadfan

    58panheadfan A-List Customer

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    Switzerland

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