Fur Felt Advice Needed

[dopey]

Hello all.

Now that I have gotten my Panama under way, my thoughts are turning to a new fur fedora. I have recently given to my father a gray hat and need to replace it with the same or a blue one. In general, I would like to get the best fur felt I can afford and the most important thing is good value. I don’t mind spending money so long as it is on hat, not storefront, public relations fees or advertising budgets. In terms of taste, mine lean towards a moderate version of the 30s look - no taper, some rake, tight pinch, moderate brim and crown. I am flexible within this range, rather than obsessive. I am not looking for an “Indy“ hat per se, although the basic style is fine with me as long as the back brim is turned up too.

I would like to buy new, rather than vintage.

Here are the options I am aware of in no particular order.

Worth & Worth in NY
Optimo in Chicago
Art Fawcett (on hiatus (temporary, I hope))
Adveturebilt (Fedora)
Camptown (Jersey Joe)
Akabura

I have not been able to find a FAQ or a search function that would help me answer this for myself, so I was hoping some of you might be able to offer your opinion on any of the people/makers I have mentioned above. I know, for example that Optimo is held in high regard, but are they better than Worth & Worth? How do their felts compare to the ones Art uses? What about Camptown and Adventurebilt?

If any of you own hats from more than one of the makers I mentioned, I would love to hear how they compare.

Thanks to all.

Edit: I added Akabura to the list. Also, I have now found the search function but I will leave my original stupidity on view. Thanks to all for your responses so far.

 

[fedoralover]

For the money you will get the best from Adventurebuilt. He does Indy hats as his specialty, however he also does others as well. You can have the brim flanged anyway you want it, as well as the crown shape. He has brown, gray and black for colors in 100% beaver. You can't beat his price for a 100% beaver fur felt hat. The only thing to keep in mind is that his brims are all raw edged. But Optimo can sew on an edge binding if you want one. I'd stay away from Worth and Worth as they are retail and I don't believe do custom fits. Optimo is excellent but they will be about twice the cost or so for the same quality of felt. As you noted Art won't be back until he's moved into his new digs. The jury is still out on Camptown as he is new and his orders are just starting to ship. Steve Delk has gotten a lot of postive feedback on his hats at Club Obi Wan. If he can satisfy the rabid Indy fan I'm sure you'll be happy as well.

fedoralover

 

[JerseyJones]

Hi Dopey,

In a custom hat, you will be hard pressed to outdo Adventurebilt for value. I love Steve's work, personally. He is a great person as well.

As to my hat, the Camptown, the idea is different. My goal is to get you into high quality production beaver blend hat at a more Akubra like price. My hats are all open crowned, with a flat front brim and a slightly curled brim in the back that makes for easy styling and I can style them if you like.

My site will get put together soon, but for now, feel free to PM me with any questions.

Best regards !
Ken

 

[dopey]

Experience at Paul Stuart

Yesterday, I went to Paul Stuart to see what sort of felt hats they had on offer. It was both exciting and discouraging. They have two basic models of hats - one made in England and one made in Italy. They are fairly similar, with the Italian one having slightly more taper. They were similarly priced at about $275. Here is the exciting part. The English one had exactly the same markings as my favorite hat, bought new in 1986 at Simpsons of Piccadilly (house label). The Paul Stuart hat, also a house label, was stamped in gold on the inside front of the sweatband: MADE IN ENGLAND/ 100% Fine Fur Felt / Hand Made (with the bottom two lines in a slightly larger italic font). The location, layout and fonts were identical (I had my SImpsons hat with me at the time). So I had found my felt hat at last. Now the disappointing part. The hats were not that good. The felt quality was poor (and I am not an expert like you) and the hats were unlined. It was like seeing an old friend who had gotten drunk, fat, lazy and stupid since last you met. The Italian hat was no better. So I am back to my original search.

BTW, if anyone knows who the English supplier is that made my hat and Paul Stuart's current offering, I would love to hear from you. Perhaps a higher quality version can be had from somewhere.

 

[fedoralover]

For a really high quality hat at the best possible price the only way to go is ebay for a vintage one. Second choice is an Adventurebilt in 100% beaver. Anything off the shelf and you will get a lot of crap for a lot of money.

fedoralover

 

[Matt Deckard]

I have not been able to find a FAQ or a search function that would help me answer this for myself, so I was hoping some of you might be able to offer your opinion on any of the people/makers I have mentioned above. I know, for example that Optimo is held in high regard, but are they better than Worth & Worth? How do their felts compare to the ones Art uses? What about Camptown and Adventurebilt?

Optimo felt is much much better than what Worth and Worth uses. If you are ready to go the whole nine yards I suggest calling Graham at Optimo with your specs. The hats just look superb and the felt is top notch, you can beat a horse with one of their hats and it keeps on wearing well over time.

I have said this before and here it is again

If you are looking for a starter hat go to Akubra.
You may not like it out of the box though after some wear and the acquisition of the shape of your head so that it looks like it belongs on you and is not a seperate entity, the hat will wear well until you are ready for something of better quality.

http://www.davidmorgan.com/proddetail.html?product_number=1610&ticket=555010-7487851&sequence=248925

 

[dopey]

Optimo felt is much much better than what Worth and Worth uses. If you are ready to go the whole nine yards I suggest calling Graham at Optimo with your specs. The hats just look superb and the felt is top notch, you can beat a horse with one of their hats and it keeps on wearing well over time.

{snip}

Matt: If you are saying that Optimo’s felt is better than Cervo, and I assume you are, can you explain why? Are there multiple grades of Cervo. I don’t know how much I trust Orlando to ask him myself as he comes across as a salesman (in the negative sense, here) to me. Right now, I am thinking Fedora or Art, but would consider Optimo if they come to NY to do a trunk show like they did at Oxxford again. Price matters to me, and it seems that I would get more hat for my money with either Fedora or Art, depending on what style I settle on. I would pay more for Optimo, but only if it came with a face-to-face meeting and measuring.

If you disagree on my hat/value assessment comparing Optimo with the other two I mentioned, please explain why as I am certainly not set in my opinions yet. The biggest advantage I see with Optimo is the greater range of colors and felts and perhaps, the pre-blocking, although I don’t know if that is a real practical advantage or not. Fedora has a more limited range of colors and felts, more limited styling and no edge treatments. Art is in between. Depending on what I want, I may be happy with any of them. If my needs limit my options, I will roll with it.

Gladhatter may also produce an excellent product, but I am not sure I have the energy or stamina to deal with him and I have yet to hear how adding him to the mix materially increases my options.

All:
Thanks again, to all, for your help (particularly Fedora, who took time out of his day to talk with me). Fortunately, I have a few months to mull this over plus a pile of e-bay hats on their way.

Finally - one of the criticism of modern felts that I read is that they shrink and taper over time. I am not an expert on felts, but I have some limited empirical experience. I have owned four good hats over my lifetime. A house brand from Buranelli on Delancey Street (shop sadly gone) was lost and I gave my father a gray Brosalino when he needed to walk home in cold weather, which he is keeping; hence my search for a replacement. That leaves me with the Simpson’s I mentioned above and a recent vintage Borsalino (purchased between 5 and 15 years ago).

The Simpson‘s hat is nearly 20 years old and has always been the one chosen for bad weather. It has been soaked many times. It was traight sided to begin with and exhibits zero taper now. If anything, there is a slight reverse taper because I think the sweat may have shrunk. The only wear showing is the cracking of the sweat and perhaps a little wear from pinching the crown (I didn’t know better until this year). I have photographed it and when I can shrink the photos to ImageShack sizes, I will post them. The point though, is that for all the talk about taper and shrinkage, my circa 1986 hat shows none.

The Borsalino has a taper. I have no idea whether or not it started with one, so I can’t comment on it’s quality. It is softer that the Simpson’s one.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Just a not so good experience with Worth and Worth felt wearing out and shrinking in a short period of time. The leather sweats they used became stiff in a short period of time. Inferior felt and inferior sweatbands when compared to Fedora, Art and Graham, Worth and Worth ties a good bow, though it's not cool when the hat is sagging and uncomfortable.

Art and Fedora are good hatters, though I think Optimo is a very good hatter.

Fedora makes an excellent Indy hat out of top quality fur felt. I haven't seen many of his other designs though if you are looking for a Indy hat he would be the one with which you want to talk.

Art has been on the scene for a long time and knows vintage inside and out. He makes a great hat and every year I have known him they keep getting better. I will be ordering a fedora from him when he is settled in, and with his vintage store out of the way he now will have more time to be a great hatter.

I give the edge to Graham as I have seen his work in many forms and so far his beaver nutria blend hats have held up better than any other modern hat I know. His eye for detail is superb.

I suggest you talk to them all before making your choice.