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Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by 767fo, Aug 12, 2017.
I suggest he stretch to 10 years, I am sure he will get more customer.
So you should order when you are 15 y
So one should place the order before they are old enough to legally drive or vote? I couldn't do it...just no way I'm waiting that long for anything. Patience is a virtue but time is of the essence...
4 years?? The entire thing is just a hoax. But still people take it so seriously
Ah, gentlemen, I wouldn't say a hoax. I just spoke to John on the phone and via email last week, as I was interested in one of his ready made jackets. He's still pleasant and upfront to speak to as usual and my take is this, there are two types of "producers", one type is essentially a businessman, like Eastman, maybe Aero, Schott, Zip Stevenson etc, the other is Brian the bootmaker and John, who is a purist craftsman. The former started with a passion but quickly build it into a business operation, whereas the latter continued to enjoy the making and designing with a singular goal: the PERFECT product. The latter is an artist, while the former is the businessman and entrepreneur. So, there is usually never mal-intent in the artists, it's just not their priority/attention.
my sister in law falls squarely into the latter, completely hopeless in making money and providing service....but her craft (making miniature things, whatever they are) is out of this world. If she cares about marketing herself, she'd be in the league of Stan Winston!!
Yes, Aero has rather big business now, but they are artist ESSENTIALLY. Look at the pattern of Simmons Bilt, it is almost identical to Aero, but something is been missing.
GW is just high-end (highest level maybe) fashion jacket, 2 years waiting time makes certain people feel what they bought is special. That's it.
How long does it take to actually make the jacket? I suspect it's around one week. I believe once it hits the hands of a machinist at Aero it's done within that time frame. I can't fully buy into the argument that larger or smaller operations somehow equate to art vs. business. I understand the thought behind it but the results (jackets in this case) simply don't bear that out. At least not from what I've handled...
I'm a bit annoyed at the fact that he answers emails regarding ready made jackets but not the ones regarding delays...
This is beginning to sound so much like the whole Temple of Jawnz deal it's not even funny. Which it might very well be at this point.
It's still just dead animal skin, nylon thread and mass produced hardware - nothing to be overly fussy about. Give any of the specific material GW is using to any tailor over at Aero or Schott or Vanson and they'll make you exactly the same jacket.
No they won't
Nice to see that some people are getting wise to things I've been saying for a while; for such a long wait, a premium price seems insulting.
I suspect though, that even if the wait really was 10 years, people would still put themselves 'on the waiting list' because of the snob-factor of the 'exclusivity'. Maybe they liken it to putting yourself on the waiting list for a new Ferrari? Although, of course, it isn't a luxury sports car, it's a leather jacket.
The 'cult' will be apoplectic when they see this thread.
If the wait starts putting people off, and there is no backlog of customers, it'll be interesting to see if prices come down, or if the 'artisan' becomes business man.
I agree. The GW I handled wasn't sewn any better than any Aero, JL or Vanson I've owned. It had some beautiful details for sure. The liner mirrored the yoke on the exterior, that was cool...but it wasn't really any "better" by any measurable, objective factor. I've owned/ handled a fair # of jackets from various makers...I think I can be trusted to be objective. I sung the praises of Aero,Thedi, SB, JL and Vanson, etc. I'm just not seeing how the wait and frustration equates to anything that's any better than anything else. Maybe I'm missing something. I think not.
We all have our bias.
This is the point where @Superfluous usually steps in to tell you point by point how wrong you are...(sigh).
John is a rare find, and an amazing craftsman. He makes beautiful jackets.
I don't think you're missing anything Ton, I think it just comes down to personal choice. I am on the list (about a month behind Carlos at 2 years on the nose) and I am not terribly perturbed about the fact that I may have to wait another year, or more, to see my jacket. This is rather unusual for me, since Carrie will tell you that I always freak out if my Aero jacket is not complete in 8 weeks or less! In this case I knew going in that it was going to be a long wait, and I made my peace with it.
I completely understand why someone else would not put up with the wait, especially if it was going to be months or years longer than originally advertised. If I felt this way myself I would contact John and asked for a refund, as simple as that.
Always said John is a nice guy and he makes nice jackets. Have also always said that I don't understand how they are better and how that justifies the price and the wait time. Never had a satisfactory answer. Interesting to see others say that they are 'no better' than other high-end jackets. I'd get crucified for saying that.
The thing I've wondered about is this;
I've always thought that GW branched out into civilian jackets because the pool of customers for military repros was drying up, but with a four year wait I'm guessing that isn't the case. My wife is in business, so I can appreciate the sense of security that having effectively 4 years of customers 'locked-in' must give, but OTOH I can't help but wonder how many potential customers will pass because of it. It's the reason I pass. I understand this business model if you are (for example) Ferrari or something; there is an expectation that the product is an asset that will eventually appreciate in price making it an investment, but all the second-hand GW jackets I have ever seen have not been more expensive than new ones, which rather shoots down the 'investment asset' aspect of ownership and the business model IMHO.
However, as long as the brand is able to market itself as elitist, exclusive, etc (via fan boy proxy) it will sustain itself. GW could make anything and there will be people falling over it because of the name.
And isn't that exactly the kind of thing that we're all trying to get away from in the first place? (In like my wife, who'll buy anything from Vivienne Westwood, just because of the brand image).
Actually, the price of a GW isn't that high. Maybe you are mixing with Himel...or any number of Japanese brands
I find his work to be good value for the $, and they hold up pretty well on the secondary market as well. Others may not.
I don't plan on selling my GW, but all the other jackets are up for grabs ATM.
Goodwear has always looked the business to my eye. Out of all of Terry’s youtube videos, his “Goodwear Roundup” is my most viewed. I’d like an Arcadia or Californian but I said that like 5 years ago. I just don’t have the patience though. Didn’t then, don’t now!
Wow could not tolerate this ... but maybe im wound too tight lol. But what i think is this.... imagine a 4 or 5 yr wait... and a jacket shows up that either doesnt fit that well... you dont like... or doesnt meet your expectations. What a bummer that would be. I mean after 4 yr wait obviously you are expecting something magical... but then again just me
I have three GW jackets that I purchased used. I really like them all but no way in hell I would wait even two years, much less four. Too many things can change in that period of time. YMMV
I don't see this as a slam on GW, but rather a compliment, in that they are deserving of the same praise often given to those other brands. I mean no disrespect to John C or the brand. They certainly are fine jackets. I personally can't see where the elevation above and beyond stems from. I've said the same of Himel. Fine jackets. Best on the planet? Not for me. Doesn't mean they aren't for someone else though. My patience level and changing tastes simply won't allow for the off the lot loss or waiting period. The things I value most in a jacket simply aren't present in GW or Himel products. Merely my opinion.