How is Coronavirus affecting you?

Discussion in 'The Observation Bar' started by Tiki Tom, Feb 28, 2020.

  1. LizzieMaine

    LizzieMaine Bartender

    If anything at all good comes out of any of this it'll be a re-evaluation of what it means to be a human being.
     
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  2. tonyb

    tonyb I'll Lock Up

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    Just as we’ve gotten a tiny taste of the material shortages that “greatest generation” endured through the Depression and the war, so it is that we’ve experienced how it is to live with a constant threat to our own lives. Small as that threat might be to most of us, it ain’t small enough for me.
     
  3. LizzieMaine

    LizzieMaine Bartender

    Today in the Era Day By Day thread, there's a story about how Britain has taken "dictatorial control of all aspects of British life" for the duration of the war -- all business, all commerce, the banking system nationalized, civilians subject to draft into war jobs at any time, basically all aspects of daily life controlled by government authorities.

    How many of today's "OMG I CAN'T GO ON MY CRUISE" types could live for five minutes in that world? And yet, the man so many of them hold up as a hero, Mr. Churchill, presided over that government and enforced those policies with an iron hand. He'd be very disappointed to see how privileged and whiny so many of the children and grandchildren of that generation have become.

    None of that has happened yet. None of it will. People need to get some perspective.
     
  4. Zombie_61

    Zombie_61 I'll Lock Up

    Sure. The problem is that even the experts still don't know what form of health care to give those who contract the virus and exhibit the known symptoms in their most severe form, so at this point the doctors are still just treating those symptoms and hoping for the best.

    Hell, we didn't deal with the first wave in an "appropriate" manner. The whole "shelter in place" thing was nothing more than a knee-jerk panic reaction because the so-called experts didn't know what else to do. Two weeks is now going on about three months, and the "experts" still don't have any answers. :rolleyes: I don't think there was ever a "desire" for government to take over our lives, but these are the people we regularly look to for answers and they simply don't have any.

    I think the real difference is that most people know what war looks like, and it scares the hell out of 'em. With this pandemic we're only hearing numbers: "X amount of people tested positive today; X amount of people were hospitalized today; X amount of people died today." And then they might throw in footage of a "survivor" being wheeled out of the hospital with people in scrubs cheering. Big deal. They need to show John Q. Public exactly what this virus does to people, because telling us "it makes you tired and causes respiratory problems" isn't making people afraid of it. We've been doing this for months, and most people I know still don't even know what the first warning symptoms are. Also, not only don't I know anyone who has contracted this virus, I don't know anyone who knows anyone who has contracted it.

    Ooh, scary virus; the only people who have it, or have had it, are in the cautionary tales in the evening news.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  5. LizzieMaine

    LizzieMaine Bartender

    I think the problem is there are too many people who have no idea what they're doing, and frankly, no idea at all about much of anything beyond their own blind self-interest, in authority over those who *do* know what they're doing and interfering with their efforts to do it. I yearn for a scientist or a team of scientists to stand up, look such ones straight in the eye, and say "sit the *** down and shut the **** up."

    There are also far far too many "Google experts" rampant in the world today who think that the ability to sit in an armchair and search up a raw statistical chart somehow puts them on an equal level of understanding and authority with trained medical professionals and scientists who have devoted their lives to the study and the interpretation of such things. A "Google argument" isn't worth much more than the time it took to search it up.

    Absolutely people need to be told, and shown, exactly what this virus can do to them, as graphically as possible. I've seen someone intubated -- though not from this virus -- and I wouldn't wish that on anyone under any circumstances.

    As for the respiratory symptoms, when I had my last bronchitis flareup back in February I woke up in the middle of the night unable to breathe at all for maybe half a minute -- and that terrified me. It's never happened before and I don't ever want it to happen again. Knowing that COVID can cause that is all I need to know to be very very careful about it.
     
  6. Old Mariner

    Old Mariner Familiar Face

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    Danville, PA
    (General response to the thread, but enclosing LizzieMaine's post as a reference.)

    When I started to read about a segment of people complaining about remaining home except in cases of necessary trips, I reflected upon two things:

    1 - My major surgery in early February 2019. I was in the hospital for 9 days, and then, essentially "home bound" for weeks afterwards. I started to get a bit antsy by mid-April, but still couldn't really go out. It was not until sometime in May when I could venture out somewhat ok. So, I had close to, if not, 3 months of being *completely* holed up.

    2 - The longest U Boat patrol lasted 225 days.

    In light of these reflections... like LizzieMaine stated, people do need to get some perspective.

     
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  7. tonyb

    tonyb I'll Lock Up

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    Kind of germane to the matter at hand ...

    I ventured out for the first time in, oh, a week or so? (This is Tuesday, ain’t it?) Picked up my prescriptions and bought $122 in groceries.

    Sign at the supermarket entrance says masks are required. Every person I saw in the store complied, except for one young man who bought a 12-pack and two big bags of chips.

    Drove past what had been a ’50s-vintage steakhouse a couple miles from here. The lovely missus and I went there once, not too long after we moved here. Dark interior, lotsa heavy wood furnishings, white linen. Pretty spendy. You’ve been to this place, even if you haven’t been to this place.

    The ground it occupied is now scraped. I hadn’t made any plans to patronize the place anytime soon, but it still saddened me just a little to see it gone.
     
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  8. tonyb

    tonyb I'll Lock Up

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    ^^^^^
    And the Thai place next door to the now empty lot has a big sign out front saying that the fully equipped restaurant building is for sale.

    I have no way of knowing if a couple months of no business drove the Thai joint under (it hadn’t been doing a land office business prior to this anyway; the fare was just so-so, but good enough for me to have given them a fair amount of my money), but it couldn’t have helped.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
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  9. belfastboy

    belfastboy I'll Lock Up

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    In my neck of the woods the news is starting to trickle out now that the restrictions are being lifted in phases of the businesses that are either not bothering to open again and those that are in the process of declaring bankruptcy. We will not know the full impact for a few months as many businesses that will try to reopen are saying it will take them upwards of two months to comply with the new regulations. Even at the trickle of news the number of business closures is significant and the ones that will reopen are very concerned about patrons actually bothering to show up. It is not as 'newsworthy' as the morbidity count but the damage to the community will be severe.
     
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  10. belfastboy

    belfastboy I'll Lock Up

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    You do realize that there is much divergence of opinion on the virus even among the scientists. So to turn it over anyone one group who 'does' know ….I would have to ask which group? In Canada our Chief Medical Health Officer, a doctor, a scientist, has changed her public position on key aspects, key actions in fighting the virus multiple times over the past few months. So it is often not just a question of who do we ask, who do we trust but to also ask on which day and which advice do we heed?
     
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  11. Feraud

    Feraud Bartender

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    Well said. If this pandemic has shown us one thing it is we have large swaths of the population who’ve never heard the word “No”. The childish push back to being asked (not demanded or legislated) to have consideration for the health of their neighbors is disturbing.
     
  12. Zombie_61

    Zombie_61 I'll Lock Up

    There's a small breakfast-and-lunch restaurant not far from home where my wife and I ate regularly at one time, but over the years have visited less frequently. It was operated by two brothers and their sister until she died four or five years ago; now it's just the brothers. My wife and I ate lunch there on Thursday, and were a little surprised to find they were still in business. Turns out, they might not be much longer because business has been so bad that they aren't quite able to pay the upcoming rent and they don't know what their landlord will do. They're in their mid- to late-60s, so if they go out of business they're going to retire sooner than either of them had planned. Sadly, there are a lot of businesses here facing the same dilemma, and even those that are able to remain open may not be staffed by the same people who worked there when all of this Coronavirus b.s. started.
     
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  13. Lean'n'mean

    Lean'n'mean My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    I think we all know the answer to that in advance.
     
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  14. Frunobulax

    Frunobulax

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    Thank you. This is why I advocate for making sure the information you make your decisions on is as accurate, up-to-date, and in context as possible. Unfortunately, most of the information as conveyed is done in such a way as to sensationalize and, it seems, keep people fearful. There are very few sources out there who are interested in conveying such information, and the vast majority of reporting seems to feed the gloom and doom scenarios.

    I've spent much of the last thirty years in the planning, collection, analysis, reduction, and interpretation of data sets. Up until 2016, my actual title was "Principal Research Scientist." Not in epidemiology or the medical field, but I daresay I've got a feel for how to read a graph and when information is relevant to what I'm trying to determine. My current position involves risk analysis and risk management.

    It made sense, for a few weeks, to address this with shelter-in-place and business closures until we understood more. It no longer makes sense (and in my opinion hasn't for about a month). We know a good portion of the risk factors; we know the major demographics affected and the disease multipliers; we're getting a much better idea of how it is spread and that the risk for the younger demographic is dramatically lower. On the flip side, we know from past experience and from current trends that there are other health factors to consider, that mental health is declining among some who have been cut off from traditional support networks, people haven't been getting palliative, curative, and ongoing treatments for other life-threatening illnesses. This is as much, of not more, of a public health concern as the virus.

    This has always been a risk management challenge, and given what we know today, to continue down the same path makes no sense. So, IMHO, if you're wanting to continue this until it's over, or we get a vaccine, or you're in fear of the impending future Second Wave, it's now causing more harm than good, and has been for a while.
     
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  15. tonyb

    tonyb I'll Lock Up

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    Go back and read what was written in the early days of this thread by people with “humble” opinions.

    I didn’t take those ill-informed opinions seriously then, and I don’t take their more recent opinions seriously now.
     
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  16. Frunobulax

    Frunobulax

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    Yeah, wouldn't want to adjust our behavior and response based on updated information from reliable sources.

    Madness, I tell you.
     
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  17. LizzieMaine

    LizzieMaine Bartender

    We're getting a lot of counter-pushback up here from people in service jobs who resent being forced to put their own health at risk to serve people who have no regard for that health or safety as long as they can be served. My waitress friends say the situation is being handled very badly here -- one, who works at a popular chain restaurant, says she was called back to work yesterday morning with no prior notice, handed a binder with rules in it, and was expected to begin her shift immediately with no further training and no time to even look over the material she was given. Is this chain policy? Who knows. But it wouldn't surprise me.
     
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  18. tonyb

    tonyb I'll Lock Up

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    Well, one “reliable” source told us back in January that “We have this totally under control.”

    In February that same source told us the total cases would be “close to zero in a couple of days.”

    Then that source offered that it would all go away in April, “like a miracle,” when the warmer weather sets in.
     
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  19. tonyb

    tonyb I'll Lock Up

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    With so many similar businesses in similar straits, the landlord might be wiser to lower the rent or waive it altogether, seeing how new renters ain’t exactly lining up, and seeing how the existing restaurant operators have a long history with him or her. Dance with guy that brung ya.

    This “lockdown” has me out a few grand, so far. I’ll get a more precise number one of these days, if my accountant tells me there could be some advantage in it. But for now I would rather spare myself the depressing news.
     
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  20. Old Mariner

    Old Mariner Familiar Face

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    Location:
    Danville, PA
    On a positive note - my county in PA (Montour) is set to go into the green phase, along with some other counties in the state.

    That said, when I go into stores, I will be wearing a mask for quite awhile. I am still hesitant to eat in (as much as I want my all you can eat Chinese buffet - and I am not even sure how they will manage to bring back buffets with this). But this is me personally - I still have that one last surgery and I am still going to be a bit more cautious than others. I don't want to mess up getting that done.

    I am just thankful that those in this state banded together (for the most part) so things were able to progress as decently as they possibly could. Could it have been done better without any sort of "frame of reference" or past point of reference? I don't know and I am not going to say because I don't have that knowledge and experience. All I know is that I am not a big fan of "hindsight judgement" when one is put in a position of having to act without that past frame of reference. I am thankful the governor took the actions that he did, because I had been concerned about things spreading rapidly from NYC west into the state.

    I recently read a rather decent article on how "patchwork" this virus has been. While most was common sense to me, what the article did was tie everything together.
     
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