How many new jackets do you have coming (and how many potential ones)?

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by red devil, Feb 12, 2017.

  1. ojaw

    ojaw Familiar Face

    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Maybe I just don’t have the gravitas to pull it off.

    [/QUOTE]Why do you think the beeswax makes the jacket less breathable? It's not like the jacket is drowned in wax like a Barbour. It's just a thin application.[/QUOTE]

    I would assume that any added wax application would make leather less breathable, though I’ve never had the opportunity to compare jackets. You clearly have, so I bow to your experience.
     
  2. Rich22

    Rich22 A-List Customer

    Messages:
    407
    Location:
    G.B.
    I guess what makes the whole aniline thing more confusing is that most leather jackets we discuss on this forum are aniline dyed rather than pigment dyed, but when finished are waxed/oiled/hot stuffed etc, to give them some water resistance. CXL is aniline dyed but heavily treated. Truly aniline leathers, without any treatment, are very absorbent, and wouldn't be very suitable for a garment taken outdoors. Having read about 'aniline leather' for the last hour (as I previously knew little about it), it appears quite a misleading term- it's essentially good full grain leather that had a natural rather than pigment finish, but beyond that can take very many shapes and forms. My favourite boots, for example, are technically aniline, but the leather bears little resemblance to my absorbent aniline sofa....

    Edit: Some ponderings: Is there such a thing as a black jacket that is truly dark black all the way through? I thought black always wore off grey or brown? Are blackened brown jackets simply aniline brown jackets that have been given a pigmented finish on top? At what point does a jacket stop being fully-aniline and is considered merely aniline? After Theodoros has waxed one, for example? hmm...
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
    Jin431 likes this.
  3. Monitor

    Monitor

    Messages:
    13,837
    Not a jacket but madness goes on. Got a pair of SLP Jodhpur's in an elusive size 46 on the way. And I've got only @red devil to thank!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    El Marro, LZHA, torfjord and 8 others like this.
  4. ton312

    ton312

    Messages:
    12,904
    Location:
    Chicago
    Spongebob popped in a day early. Super nice hide. Thick and heavier than I expected. Also really dusty. The chest zip was kaput, I fashioned one out of spare parts. I also waxed that half of the jacket. Lighting is not great but shows precisely why I love URAD. Fit is a bit generous for me. It’s tough to call as the elastic in the HB is pretty well shot. Pockets are indeed misaligned thanks to a hasty main zip repair. Not sure how far down the rabbit hole I’m willing to go with this one. Perhaps I’ll throw some fit fit pics up and let the court of public opinion decide.
    D1E1BD74-4107-416A-8F72-E133525CDEA1.jpeg 0317319E-C5FD-4DB9-BBCB-3EA2AA963DF4.jpeg 1B68D7F4-7ED8-4CA8-9DC3-D511FD39D462.jpeg 41D56F54-91D8-48EF-8DFC-71DDB72D8D90.jpeg
     
  5. Jin431

    Jin431 Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,618
    Location:
    Bay Area CA
    I get it man it can be so confusing. Try not to overthink it. Full aniline is good for you if you want a nice smooth leather where you can appreciate color variations and if you don't mind imperfections in the hide and this type of leather is not good in the elements at all. Semi aniline is good if you still want something uncorrected full grain leather with a light layer of paint that will make a more uniform color and that will have better protection with the rain/abrasion.

    There are plenty of full aniline full vegetable tanned dyed black all the way through the core (shinki/Badalassi/tochigi as well as some Horween hides to name a few), they are dyed but there is no finish to the outer layer so it is porous and will absorb moisture rather quickly. If the black leather is pigment (paint) finished then it will probably show some sort of brown core. I believe a gray/blue core is more common with chrome tanned jackets.

    I believe a blackened brown leather is a semi aniline finish where the leather is dyed brown and then finished off with a light layer of paint that will wear off and show brown when it does.

    If someone waxes or oils a leather then it's just basically an oiled/waxed finished leather, it will eventually wear off with time and wear but the leather will still be whatever the base leather is whether it's full aniline/semi aniline/pigment finished
     
  6. El Marro

    El Marro Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,771
    Location:
    California
    I agree 100%. Thedi and Eastman are two makers who do the aging thing just right.
     
    Marc mndt likes this.
  7. Rich22

    Rich22 A-List Customer

    Messages:
    407
    Location:
    G.B.
    Let's take Shinki as an example- it's fully aniline dyed, but in its finished state it's not a 'fully aniline leather' due to the finishing/oiling/treatments. The only leather sample I've held from any jacket manufacturer that is "pigmented" as opposed to aninile is Aero's goatskin, which is bulletproof. "Pigmented" also seems a bloody stupid term, as with leather it means lacquered or coated in plastic, which is a million miles from the dictionary definition. All "real" leather should be plastic free, but then again, someone co-opted 'real leather' to mean 'it contains some actual leather.' :(

    edit: Himel describes Shinki leather that has been oiled/waxed as having a 'pigment finish', as well as some Shinki that has been 'painted'. Honestly, I give up. Even the experts put out conflicting information. https://himelbros.com/pages/learn-about-our-leather
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
    Jin431 and jonbuilder like this.
  8. Jin431

    Jin431 Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,618
    Location:
    Bay Area CA
    They can call it whatever or categorize it however they want but it's still just leather. It's just a bunch of industry terms that they use for marketing and to differentiate articles of leather. Shinki leather is a broad term, like Horween they make a lot of hides that are dyed differently and finished differently whether oiled/waxed/full aniline/semi aniline/pigment/black teacore/brown teacore/I read there is even a grey or reddish brown core too. There are even tumbled shinki hides lol

    To keep it simple if you want to keep your black jacket black go pick a full aniline leather however it's finished oiled/waxed/no finish and if you want to have your black jacket show brown undertones go pigment/teacore.
     
    roadking04, jonbuilder, JMax and 4 others like this.
  9. Monitor

    Monitor

    Messages:
    13,837
    And you should! :D

    The only leather experts are the people working at the tannery. Leather jacket makers are tailors & designers and they certainly ain't tanning experts. They'd be waaay better off just saying "This is our brown leather and this is our black leather. They're all pretty cool!" 'cause frankly, at this point, that's all I wanna know.

    Believe me, the only thing that makes sense is to forget 90% of "terminology" you hear getting thrown around out and just focus on color, texture and thickness (though even that part is filled with bs).
    What @Jin431 says, it's just marketing techno-babble. Process of tanning is very complicated & by the time any information on how a batch of leather that some specific maker sourced has been tanned, gets transformed into a blurb on some retail platform, it went through so many levels of misunderstanding that it's best to simply ignore it.

    I mean, retail websites can't even tell the difference between leather that's been split into layers & leather that a machinist flips upside-down before starting working on a jacket. Most of the internet believes Shinki is a type of leather!

    What's happening is that you're hearing all of these terms from people who've never set foot into a tannery. For instance, read the descriptions on Himel's "about our leathers" page - You'll notice that all "descriptions" consist of the exact same terms that have been slightly rearranged. They can't even get the suede bit right!

    But that is okay!
    Because leather jacket makers themselves aren't even sure what they're buying and will for the most part just source leather that's got all the characteristics their product is known for; ie. what they're used to working with and ultimately, what the consumer expects from them.

    It often happens to the tannery that they run out of a certain type of leather, which then forces makers to look for the closest match. I mean, that won't happen to Fine Creek or Real McCoy but it happens. It happened to Schott and Vanson. But what I'm getting at, not even the machinists will notice something's changed, let alone people who talk about tanning on social platforms.

    People who have been in the industry for decades will happily tell you they don't care how the leather has been tanned as long as it checks all the boxes they require and I do believe that's actually a very healthy approach to all of this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
    Carlos840, Mich486, red devil and 7 others like this.
  10. Marc mndt

    Marc mndt My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,507
    All of this is true. But I still think it IS useful to realize that different finishes come with different characteristics that may or may not be suited for your particular goal.

    E.g. full aniline leather without any topcoat will soak up water like a sponge. Therefore it might not be your first choice when looking for a jacket for riding.
     
    Monitor, Mrfrown and Jin431 like this.
  11. handymike

    handymike I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    9,034
    Location:
    SoCal
    I agree with @Monitor. It would be fantastic for makers to simplify and just show us the color/details of a select few beautiful leathers and be done.
    In this internet/ over-info age, simplicity is precious.
     
  12. Mrfrown

    Mrfrown Practically Family

    Messages:
    861
    Then you have Iron Heart’s approach - this is the leather, the guru has selected it, buy it or not! Obviously the faithful are accustomed to this approach, but I do think it has wider appeal by simplifying things.
     
    Monitor likes this.
  13. Mrfrown

    Mrfrown Practically Family

    Messages:
    861
    Speaking of Iron Heart, my first piece is this Wabash vest. Took some impromptu photos this morning. Figured out that I need to pull in the backstrap a bit as it has no taper. I think it adds a nice pop!

    56EFD88F-547D-4499-AA7D-CAC7B323FF12.jpeg 11191AA8-A543-4666-AB74-F011837BACE2.jpeg 6DE837A9-A5FC-4F63-9DCD-89DDA8259890.jpeg
     
  14. Rich22

    Rich22 A-List Customer

    Messages:
    407
    Location:
    G.B.
    I agree with Marc, Jim and Monitor regarding the descriptions of leather- unless it's been coated or partially coated in plastic (which for me is a no) it generally doesn't really matter how the leather is described, as long as the leather sample I receive looks and feels nice. It is, however, useful to know if a leather has been aniline dyed completely, so that black really means black all the way though- I didn't even know that was a possibility, so it makes me want to buy a jacket that is black throughout! I doubt many (or perhaps any) jackets are "fully aniline leather" in the truest sense, because even on furniture the absorbency is just a nightmare.

    Edit: And yes, I agree that 'aniline' and 'pigmented' have degenerated into nonsensical terms that are now just meaningless techno-babble, much like most terms relating to leather!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
    Jin431 and Monitor like this.
  15. Monitor

    Monitor

    Messages:
    13,837
    And they produced some fantastic leather jackets! Their Deerskin shirt cannot be surpassed.

    I agree but I also believe that at the price point we're discussing here, such a thing shouldn't even be an option and luckily, as far as I know, it isn't. All the makers that are in this game strive to bring out a top quality product and nobody is using such a sub-par material.

    But what exactly is aniline? I honestly never quite managed to figure that one out.
    Wikipedia says aniline leather is simply dyed leather and since all leather is dyed (even "natural" or "tan" as leather without any dye is gray/green (yeah, kinda what you'd expect something dead to look like)). So basically, all leather is aniline.
    So what's pigmented leather? Half the descriptions online are interchangeable with aniline so at this point, as @Rich22 states, the term doesn't seem to have any meaning. From what I gather, it's supposed to mean coated leather, right? So what's that got to do with pigmentation, a noun that Merriam-Webster defines as 'coloration with or deposition of pigment'. So we've got two words that mean the same thing that means nothing.

    As a complete amateur, all I know is that there's leather with a top coat and without top coat and leather that's dyed only on top and leather that's dyed all the way thru. Which is why I like Schott's term for it. Naked hide! Simple & to the point. :D[/QUOTE]
     
    Rich22 likes this.
  16. Rich22

    Rich22 A-List Customer

    Messages:
    407
    Location:
    G.B.
    Quite a few decent quality black jackets I've handled appear to have a coating of some kind to make them 'blacker'- I assumed that sprayed finish might contain some plastic. Black goat, such as Aero's goat, appears to have a thick, tough, coating, that I always believed was at least partially plastic? If you can't create scuff marks very easily with a fingernail, I think you're handling more than just pure leather...
     
  17. Marc mndt

    Marc mndt My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,507
    From left to right:
    Full aniline pigment dyed (dyed all the way through + top coat; pigment dyed (top coat only); full aniline (dyed all the way through, no top coat)

    53CC6F6D-1A55-4026-833E-9D173C6CE6A6.jpeg
     
    Torstein, torfjord, Mrfrown and 2 others like this.
  18. Canuck Panda

    Canuck Panda Practically Family

    Messages:
    536
    After seeing this account repeatedly on Instagram, I pulled the trigger. The cost was 580 shipped. There is a brown one in calfskin on Aliexpress for half that. But this is suppose to be naked hand dyed horsehide. I don't know. I'm a sucker for green leather. And I have a very similar scorpion helmet like the one in the photo. I took it as my sign from above. Hope I don't get scammed.

    Image1.jpg
     
  19. ton312

    ton312

    Messages:
    12,904
    Location:
    Chicago
    Please post photos when you have it! This dude's gram has been irritating my feed and I've wanted to jump several times. Please keep the board updated on this!
     
  20. handymike

    handymike I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    9,034
    Location:
    SoCal
    I’m also interested in your analysis of the jacket when it arrives.
     
    hondurasdave47 and Canuck Panda like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.