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How many new jackets do you have coming (and how many potential ones)?

photo2u

One Too Many
Messages
1,326
Location
claremont california
The images you share show different production periods of the jacket. I will agree that some early models of the cycling champ were different. Garment makers use patterns to stay consistent with a particular jacket. They might change from year to year. However, the last 50s model of the cycle champs is very much consistent with that particular production years. The d pocket and the orientation of the zip were very much spot on in all the actual jackets (flesh and pictures) I have seen. The one with the split back could have been purposely done this way due to a number of reasons. But could have been a repair as noted on the image. However, very difficult to repair a jacket in that area without losing material and space.
I base my opinions on actual dated American publishings. Some Japanese publish good information. However, they do mistakes from time to time.
 

photo2u

One Too Many
Messages
1,326
Location
claremont california
There is a website, that I can’t find right now, that shows pictures of the basic evolution of the HD Champ. I have screenshots somewhere. I imagine different makers and iterations led to the subtle differences, like the Herc D pockets. Let me try to find the screenshots. Lovely jackets, all of them.

I remember seeing it. Flight jacket and many other nice things: http://eijucraft.com/vintage-motorcycle-wear/

The site is very nice but with many mistakes. Good resource. Remember, the cycle champ and the cycle king are different jackets. Like the cycle queen my daughter owns.
 

Blackadder

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,531
Location
China
The images you share show different production periods of the jacket. I will agree that some early models of the cycling champ were different. Garment makers use patterns to stay consistent with a particular jacket. They might change from year to year. However, the last 50s model of the cycle champs is very much consistent with that particular production years. The d pocket and the orientation of the zip were very much spot on in all the actual jackets (flesh and pictures) I have seen. The one with the split back could have been purposely done this way due to a number of reasons. But could have been a repair as noted on the image. However, very difficult to repair a jacket in that area without losing material and space.
I base my opinions on actual dated American publishings. Some Japanese publish good information. However, they do mistakes from time to time.
Yes the first two and the last two are different period but even the last two you can notice the subtle difference in the pocket shape which I would say is a QC problem.
I doubt that is a repair work. The kidney panel also split into two which indicates that it is more an attempt to slim the jacket.
I am surprised that you have seen the Toyo repro as those are not very common.
 
Last edited:

Jiaward

Familiar Face
Messages
86
Location
Riverside, Ca.
4CD829CE-076D-4DAC-B5A2-CE6AD7AA811A.jpeg

Just received mine back from Dena after a small repair.
 

tmitchell59

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,105
Location
Illinois
So when is this most famous Dena going to start making her own jackets? Seems she is well placed and has a sympathetic eye when it comes to pattern.

I talked to her about this several years ago, she lives about 30 miles from me. She has been approached by a well known maker to sew his jackets, she declined. She likes what she does.

I have no doubt she could do it. She is a very nice lady and not all that young and her hands feel the years. Much like me.

I keep saying I'm going down and do an interview with her. She has worked on my jackets and I've been to her shop. Fall sounds like a nice time to visit. I will contact Dena and see if she can find some time for a visit and video.
 

tmitchell59

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,105
Location
Illinois
View attachment 450200
Just received mine back from Dena after a small repair.

I love this example so much I bought one that needs Dena's help and I forget I have it.

The subtle differences could be due to different makers using the same pattern, or trying to..I believe these changes in makers contributes to the quality of the may have a clue to the maker of the HD labeled jackets. Grais come to mind. Given HD was in Milwaukee a mid western makers seems to make sense. Monarch, Fried-Osterman, Grais, Golden Fleece, were probably all capable of producing the jackets.

The many catalog images available give a pretty good chronology of the different styles

1662831954608.jpeg
1662831979929.jpeg
1662832031913.jpeg
 

Bonasera

New in Town
Messages
37
I love this example so much I bought one that needs Dena's help and I forget I have it.

The subtle differences could be due to different makers using the same pattern, or trying to..I believe these changes in makers contributes to the quality of the may have a clue to the maker of the HD labeled jackets. Grais come to mind. Given HD was in Milwaukee a mid western makers seems to make sense. Monarch, Fried-Osterman, Grais, Golden Fleece, were probably all capable of producing the jackets.

The many catalog images available give a pretty good chronology of the different styles

View attachment 450337 View attachment 450338 View attachment 450339
Very cool stud custom

I have seen a jacket with Blatt label which was same model to this.
 

Claybertrand

One Too Many
Messages
1,196
I talked to her about this several years ago, she lives about 30 miles from me. She has been approached by a well known maker to sew his jackets, she declined. She likes what she does.

I have no doubt she could do it. She is a very nice lady and not all that young and her hands feel the years. Much like me.

I keep saying I'm going down and do an interview with her. She has worked on my jackets and I've been to her shop. Fall sounds like a nice time to visit. I will contact Dena and see if she can find some time for a visit and video.
@tmitchell59 THIS would be such a gift to the Lounge if you could swing this Terry. You do a great job interviewing YOURSELF on your vids!! But this would be a very interesting interview to read or see. It would only help her business too like when Guy Fieri visits a Diver-DriveIn-Dive and the place GOES OFF thereafter and needs to build a bigger restaurant!! I have a couple of jackets earmarked for her services. I need to get them to her before she retires!!! Quality leather tailoring in the US Its a dying art for sure.........
 

tmitchell59

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,105
Location
Illinois
@tmitchell59 THIS would be such a gift to the Lounge if you could swing this Terry. You do a great job interviewing YOURSELF on your vids!! But this would be a very interesting interview to read or see. It would only help her business too like when Guy Fieri visits a Diver-DriveIn-Dive and the place GOES OFF thereafter and needs to build a bigger restaurant!! I have a couple of jackets earmarked for her services. I need to get them to her before she retires!!! Quality leather tailoring in the US Its a dying art for sure.........

I have a "script" in mind; questions I have on a variety leather topics. I thought of this during Covid when I could not go there.

Dena has no lack of business especially going into the fall jacket weather. She may not want more work!!!

I am going to do this. I will publish the interview on my youtube channel and post a link here.

I have seen a jacket with Blatt label which was same model to this.

Yes, that is another suspect, also in the mid west, Chicago, Illinois.
 

photo2u

One Too Many
Messages
1,326
Location
claremont california
I love this example so much I bought one that needs Dena's help and I forget I have it.

The subtle differences could be due to different makers using the same pattern, or trying to..I believe these changes in makers contributes to the quality of the may have a clue to the maker of the HD labeled jackets. Grais come to mind. Given HD was in Milwaukee a mid western makers seems to make sense. Monarch, Fried-Osterman, Grais, Golden Fleece, were probably all capable of producing the jackets.

The many catalog images available give a pretty good chronology of the different styles

View attachment 450337 View attachment 450338 View attachment 450339

That makes lots of sense, Terri, I was also thinking HD might have contracted a different company to make their jackets. For a big production company, it is not a duck walk to reinvent a new pattern and produce it. Also, the learning curb to efficiently craft the jacket is a financial concern every time. I believe a big factor caused HD to drop the Cycle king to focus on the cycling champ. HD only produced 4 different jackets from the late 40s to the end of the 50s. Their marketing strategy reminds of buco's strategies used to market the J-type jacket. At first, they started with all the bells and whistles on the cycle king, offering the wool and a nice stencil belt, and selected thin pliable leather (for comfort). As production continued, they removed the wool. In the cycle champ, their jacket ran the longest of them all. If you see the transitions of the Buco j21 to the j24 you can clearly see quality dropping off. Remember, the use of nylon fabric was already in use in the early 50s. But some companies opted not to use it in their top-tier jacket.

Just my view, of course. It would be interesting to know the actual records of who produced the jackets for them. I am thinking of Michigan because of later productions.

Lastly, if you see some features of the jacket, it reminds me of a Buco J 24L (weather king).
 

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