ID and Date on a denim chore / work jacket

[FaceOfBoh]

I'm a long-time lurker and first-time poster who's only recently gotten the vintage bug and started hunting for it. I either keep what I find (if it fits me or my kids (and we like it!)) or I sell via etsy or ebay. I'm looking forward to getting more involved with this online community. I like the vibe here.

Anyway, I found this jacket and am wondering if anyone can provide any information.

It's vintage. It's denim. It's lined with a corduroy collar. So far sounds like a solid PRL "inspired by" piece.

There are no tags except for a UGWA post-1931 tag with Duck Goods on it, located inside front side pocket. Buttons have what I'd call a laurel wreath pattern and rusted but jacket is in mint shape. Weird pocket on left breast - I don't know the technical term for it. Two button holes at one of the button positions on the chest. Red stitching at certain corners.

Thanks!

 

[EmergencyIan]

The "extra" pocket on the left breast pocket is for a pocket watch...as is the extra "button" hole.

I've seen this particular brand of chore jacket/coat on ebay, over the years, but I cannot remember the brand.

- Ian

 

[Worf]

"Paging Doctor Dinerman! Doctor Dinerman please report to Workware Identification Room... STAT!"

Worf

 

[Dinerman]

I want to say Penney's Pay Day.
As for value, it really depends. Here are some similar ones that sold recently.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380724918073
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261266961148

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

Dinnerman is right on with the Payday. Though most Pay Day jackets have a Pay Day button.

You can even see the stiching for the logo patch on left breast pocket. It could be another small brand as these jackets where made by several company's. Love the pocket watch detail. I have a few Chore jackets but not one with that detail yet. Would require the purchase of a pocket watch to go with the jacket for sure. My wife says I already have too many denim jackets. But you never can have too many is what I say. Just like Fedoras and newsboys. What size does it look to be? What is the shoulder to shoulder measurement?

 

[FaceOfBoh]

Thanks Guys, for all the information. It sent me off in a few directions, all of them good.

I didn't notice those stitching remnants on the left breast pocket. It does look like a tag was removed, though there is no Pay Day button anywhere to be seen. I've looked at some examples of Pay Day jackets and this definitely seems in the vein though I didn't see any with this level of detail (the watch pocket and pencil holder, corduroy collar, and the two-size cuffs). Someone else on another site mentioned H.W. Carter & Sons - the true vintage stuff. I need to do more research on that one. But I'm up in Canada so it wouldn't be unheard of for a retailer/manufacturer to dump excess product here and some retailer might have removed the tag. Or maybe it's evidence of an early anti-brand wearer!

Wise Hatter, here are the measurements. It doesn't have shoulder seams to measure. It's what I'd call a raglan construction.

Sleeve length (middle of collar to end of sleeve): 30.5"
Chest (pit to pit, laid flat): 22"
Length: 25"

Hmmmm. Maybe it's bound for a Japanese buyer. I'm a 38 R with shirt sleeves at 34 and it's a bit to short for me.

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

Yes it seems small I wear a 48r and on some jackets 50r in denim. Dam my broad shoulders. Nice details on the jacket thou. It is funny my wife again today out of the blue said you have too many denim jackets.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

You need to find out who used the wheatsheaf/wheatwreath buttons.

Levis used them in the middle 1940s, but I'm certain this isn't a Levi's jacket. The label on the pocket looks the right size and placement for Lee. With the general style, pocket types, corduroy collar, cuff styling and white stitching, I would plump for this to be a Lee Jelt denim jacket.

Check out this Google image search. Particularly look at the cuffs. They are pretty distinctive, and probably definitive. nice, and very sought-after, but will fetch only a middling price, with the label missing.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lee+chore+jacket+label&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&gws_rd=cr&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=W0lIUqrDF8PF7Aall4DYDQ#imgdii=_

 

[karhu21]

Welcome to the Fedora lounge FaceofBoh..you have come to the right place!

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

I don't collect denim but my first idea was Lee too. There is a model called "Lee Loco" which comes with the same cuff button placement.
Just searched for it and looks close. I believe they are still being made this way.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lee-Loco-Denim-Jacket-Mens-Size-Small-/290976034728

 

[Dinerman]

The raglan shoulders are a distinctive of Pay Day jackets which I've never seen on a Lee 91-J. Lee sued Penney's over the pocket design of their bib overalls in 1941. The bib design was an enlarged version of the breast pockets of their respective jackets, with the same side entry watch pocket and stitched pencil pocket. Lee lost the suit, be even back then, the similarities between the details of their products were noticed.

The cuffs aren't what you usually see on Pay Day jackets, and I agree, they do look more like what Lee was making, but looking around, there were variations over the years in the Pay Day cuff design.

This example has the Wreath Buttons instead of the usual Pay Day Branded ones- so it did happen, but was not common.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261266961148

Under Penney's other workwear label, "Big Mac", similar jackets were made well into the 1970s or 1980s. Many of the ones under that label I've seen have the blanket lining and cord collar. Although the pocket arrangement is the same, I haven't seen any under the big mac label with the raglan shoulders.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/221247699617

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Oops. Yes. Listen too Dinerman. My Knowledge comes from Google. :eusa_doh:

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Narrows it down at least. Interesting that Lee and Penney's were in legal dispute over design similarity.

Well, I gues then that it's probably a Lee or a Penney's Payday. The Wheat Wreath buttons I think date it to the middle-late 1940s. DMan?

 

[Xenophon]

Isn't the left pocket a 'cigarette pocket'? Was -at least in Europe- widely used on that type f garment in the '30's. Allowed on to put a pack of cigarettes in and extract one without having to remove the pack from the shirt or fish around too much. Pike Brothers also have them on one of their reproduction shirts: http://pikebrothers.com/product/1937-roamer-shirt-blue-striped-linen/

 

[herringbonekid]

Xenophon, the spare buttonhole on the jacket is the clue to the fact that the pocket is a watch pocket.
(not to mention that getting cigarettes out of a small gap like that wouldn't be very convenient).

the pocket on the Pike Brothers shirt also looks like a watch pocket (despite what they say). this is a cigarette pocket:

http://www.vintageworkwear.com/2012/05/1940s-reliance-mfg-co-big-yank.html

i have a vintage denim apron with an even better cigarette pocket. i'll post a pick when i have time.

 

[FaceOfBoh]

So much great information here. Thank you all.

As for above, it's definitely a watch pocket. The horizontal opening doesn't run completely from top to bottom and is only about 3" long. Its construction reminds me of one of those small hand-sized change purses. Of course, having you're watch on a chain means you can easily pull it out of the pocket. Keeping anything else in there would be a pain in the the ass to remove unlless you started doing weird controtions to squeeze the pocket slit open.

 

[Xenophon]

Xenophon, the spare buttonhole on the jacket is the clue to the fact that the pocket is a watch pocket.
(not to mention that getting cigarettes out of a small gap like that wouldn't be very convenient).

the pocket on the Pike Brothers shirt also looks like a watch pocket (despite what they say). this is a cigarette pocket:

http://www.vintageworkwear.com/2012/05/1940s-reliance-mfg-co-big-yank.html

i have a vintage denim apron with an even better cigarette pocket. i'll post a pick when i have time.

OK, makes sense and I gladly stand corrected. Surprises me a bit about Pike brothers though, normally their research is impeccable.

 

[herringbonekid]