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MA1: What is it?

bumphrey hogart

One of the Regulars
Messages
159
Location
cornwall,England
Here's a question for all you military leather buffs out there.What exactly is the MA1 and what military history,if any,has it got?I know a majority of you guys are A2 fans and I know the A1 copies by aero,eastman,etc,with the button front and the high knit neck but what I'm talking about is the old style 'bomber'. The rounded knit collar as well as knit bottom and sleeves,and zip up front,loads of cheap nasty ones out there but I've got a schott I've had for twenty years,the leathers so thick it,s barely worn in and I just love the simplicity of the design.What if any is its military heritage?Cheers B
 

xt40

Familiar Face
Messages
75
Location
Ireland
the ma1 was one of the first nylon us flight jackets and was used from the fifties to early eighties. they were not originally made in leather so your schott jacket is a high quality fashion jacket in the ma1 style
 

Justhandguns

Practically Family
Messages
779
Location
London
MA-1 is actually a direct decedent of the B-15C flight jacket. If you look carefully, the early MA-1s look exactly like the B-15 without the fur collar. And indeed, it should be made with nylon. Mr Peacoat, correct me if I am wrong, the MA-1 actually first appeared in the late 50s' and early 60s' and were eventually been replaced by CWU-45/P nomex jackets in the late 70s'.

Like xt40 said, leather MA-1 is more a fashion kind of remake of the iconic nylon MA-1 jackets. The original MA-1 probably became even more iconic when Steve McQueen wore it in the Hunter?!, I believe.
 

Michael Carter

One of the Regulars
Messages
159
Location
Midwest
The CWU-36/P and -45/P both replaced the MA-1 and a similar jacket who's designator escapes me at the moment. It had epaulets and flapped side slash pockets. Very nearly the same jacket as the MA1. N1B sounds familiar though I don't think that's it.
 

Doctor Strange

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,220
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
Yeah, but as others have said, the MA-1 was never made in leather for any military contract, so don't put too much stock in the label.

I used to have a link to a Japanese site that showed the different contracts/variations, but I can't find it. Here's some text about the MA-1 history (mostly from Alpha's sales info, alas):

http://www.classicjet.com/store/ma1history.htm

And the Wiki article, which mostly covers similar ground:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MA-1_bomber_jacket
 

Michael Carter

One of the Regulars
Messages
159
Location
Midwest
For what it's worth, the -45/P and -36/P was never issued in leather either, but there are all sorts of knock-offs floating around. They were also never issued in flight satin nylon, but even Alpha who makes these in Nomex for the military will lead you to believe otherwise. They sew in a very official looking contract tag in a nylon jacket that's as bogus as a -45/P in leather.
 

Edward

Bartender
Messages
24,736
Location
London, UK
MA-1 is actually a direct decedent of the B-15C flight jacket. If you look carefully, the early MA-1s look exactly like the B-15 without the fur collar. And indeed, it should be made with nylon. Mr Peacoat, correct me if I am wrong, the MA-1 actually first appeared in the late 50s' and early 60s' and were eventually been replaced by CWU-45/P nomex jackets in the late 70s'.

Like xt40 said, leather MA-1 is more a fashion kind of remake of the iconic nylon MA-1 jackets. The original MA-1 probably became even more iconic when Steve McQueen wore it in the Hunter?!, I believe.

It's not really surprising that civilian MA1s were often made from leather - much like many civilian takes on the B15. While I imagine there were those who were encouraged to migrate to nylon as that came into military usage, there were probably others, perhaps more steeped in tradition, who really felt that a 'proper' flying jacket had to be leather, and it was to these people that leather versions of jackets designed to be made and issued in nylon were marketed.

The early MA1s, to me at least, were essentially just a B15 Modified jacket that was produced with the knit collar to begin with, rather than that being a later adaptation.
 

Peacoat

*
Bartender
Messages
6,296
Location
South of Nashville
the lighter one with epaulettes was called l2-b

My issue flight jacket in 1966 was the L2-B. It has slash pockets and no epaulets; however, another L2-B (Alpha Industries) I bought at the PX in 1969 has the epaulets and flap pockets. Both are marked as L2-B.

A 1967 L2-B I have is by Satellite Outerwear. It has the slash pockets and no epaulets, so I think the epaulets must have come into the specifications at or a little before 1969.

To add some confusion, I also have a 1969 (Alpha Industries) MA-1, Intermediate Flying Jacket, with no epaulets and a slash pocket. Upon further investigation, although the contract year is 1969, following the contract series of numbers, is the date, 19 July 1968.
 

Justhandguns

Practically Family
Messages
779
Location
London
My issue flight jacket in 1966 was the L2-B. It has slash pockets and no epaulets; however, another L2-B (Alpha Industries) I bought at the PX in 1969 has the epaulets and flap pockets. Both are marked as L2-B.

A 1967 L2-B I have is by Satellite Outerwear. It has the slash pockets and no epaulets, so I think the epaulets must have come into the specifications at or a little before 1969.

To add some confusion, I also have a 1969 (Alpha Industries) MA-1, Intermediate Flying Jacket, with no epaulets and a slash pocket. Upon further investigation, although the contract year is 1969, following the contract series of numbers, is the date, 19 July 1968.


Sounds interesting! And thanks for you information, now I learnt more about the L-2B jackets. It seems to me that the variation of L-2B jackets is pretty huge when compared to the MA-1.
 

Edward

Bartender
Messages
24,736
Location
London, UK
My issue flight jacket in 1966 was the L2-B. It has slash pockets and no epaulets; however, another L2-B (Alpha Industries) I bought at the PX in 1969 has the epaulets and flap pockets. Both are marked as L2-B.

A 1967 L2-B I have is by Satellite Outerwear. It has the slash pockets and no epaulets, so I think the epaulets must have come into the specifications at or a little before 1969.

To add some confusion, I also have a 1969 (Alpha Industries) MA-1, Intermediate Flying Jacket, with no epaulets and a slash pocket. Upon further investigation, although the contract year is 1969, following the contract series of numbers, is the date, 19 July 1968.

I know these were a lighter jacket than the B15, intended for more moderate climates - as I understand it, effectively a nylon replacement for the A2 - does that jive with your experience? I wonder whether the variations in production could have been due to demand for field use in the Vietnam conflict? Would it ever have been thought important to drop the epaulettes, for example, to save material for production of more jackets? I don't imagine they were produced in the same quantities as, say, the M-65, but still... Possible, or is my idle speculation barking?
 

Peacoat

*
Bartender
Messages
6,296
Location
South of Nashville
I know these were a lighter jacket than the B15, intended for more moderate climates - as I understand it, effectively a nylon replacement for the A2 - does that jive with your experience? I wonder whether the variations in production could have been due to demand for field use in the Vietnam conflict? Would it ever have been thought important to drop the epaulettes, for example, to save material for production of more jackets? I don't imagine they were produced in the same quantities as, say, the M-65, but still... Possible, or is my idle speculation barking?

Yes, it was the A-2 replacement (not sure what, if anything, was in the interim) and it was for warm climates. I was only stationed in warm climates, one of them more warm than I wanted! The intermediate was for the cooler climates.

Actually the L2-B without the epaulets and the pocket flaps, came before the epaulets and flaps were added. So, go figure on that one. Maybe to give a more military appearance, as an earlier poster said.
 

Edward

Bartender
Messages
24,736
Location
London, UK
Yes, it was the A-2 replacement (not sure what, if anything, was in the interim) and it was for warm climates. I was only stationed in warm climates, one of them more warm than I wanted! The intermediate was for the cooler climates.

I've wondered about that occasionally... It seems that the B10, although the first replacement for the A2, was a much warmer jacket (not had one myself, but from what I read here...); the B15 appears to have been an all-purpose replacement for B3, B6, A2... It would seem to me that perhaps this is down to the fact that while warmer jackets were necessary in the Forties, as planes advanced and pressurised cabins came in, with electronically heated flightsuits and the rest, it wasn't so cold in a plane in warmer climates, and so evolved the need for a lighter jacket. As I say, I have no military or aviation experience (not in the cabin side, at least!), so I'm only speculating.

Actually the L2-B without the epaulets and the pocket flaps, came before the epaulets and flaps were added. So, go figure on that one. Maybe to give a more military appearance, as an earlier poster said.

So were they absent on the L2 and L2A or am I right that it seems they disappeared for a while or the L2B to reappear later? They certainly do add to the military appearance of the jacket. Maybe to set them apart from what had, by then, become a popular / common look for civilian jackets?
 

Atticus Finch

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,717
Location
Coastal North Carolina, USA
The L-2, the L-2A and the first editions of the L-2B all had zipper box flaps, pocket flaps and epaulettes. It was the later models of the L-2B that lacked these features. Here are four original L-2Bs from my collection. First, a 1956 Rolen. Second, a 1961 Skyline. Next to last, a 1967 Satellite. The last photo is a 1971 Alpha. Notice the pocket flaps returned on this model but not the zipper box flap or the epaulettes.

wisconsin127.jpg


wisconsin126.jpg


wisconsin119.jpg


wisconsin125.jpg



AF
 
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