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My ideal A-2...is it really too much to ask?

Fletch

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,865
Location
Iowa - The Land That Stuff Forgot
Some things you don't dare wish for. Well, I'm going to wish away.

MurocGunneryCampMiscellaneous0001zo.jpg

MurocGunneryCampMiscellaneous0003zo.jpg

MurocGunneryCampMiscellaneous0002zo.jpg


The above photos, all taken at Muroc Gunnery Camp (now part of Edwards AFB) circa 1934, show Army pilots wearing the original government contract Type A-2 jacket: the 1932 Security Sportswear "Aviation Togs" order no. 32-485. (One Type A-1 is shown at center in the pic just above, as well as one example of the second known A-2 contract, no. 33-1729, by Werber Leather Coat, at right.)

Most remarkable is the easy, but elegant fit of this jacket - indeed, until seeing these pix, one might hardly imagine an A-2 could fit this way. It had plenty of room in both the body and sleeves, yet was square-shouldered and did not give a sloppy appearance. Not the "wartime authentic" ultra-trim cut made for wiry teenagers in an era of shortages, it is also not the droop-shouldered "mall fit" expected in today's outerwear. Compared with its Werber successor, the Security looks longer and fuller thru the waist - enough to allow a jaunty bloused look or pull down a bit for a skosh' of extra protection.

The deep but nicely-pointed collar also lent itself to a variety of shapings - folded flat, rolled dress shirt style, even tightly rolled-out at the neckband in a kind of uniformity with the still-worn Type A-1. The riveted-in zipper and button-flap pockets make the Security still more distinctive. Other early A-2s had rivet zippers, but 32-485 is the only such jacket without snap-flaps.

Evident on some of these airmen is an apparent production goof that led to the left pocket riding 1/2" to 1" higher than the right...or was it done on purpose? Perhaps by a base rigger or tailor to accommodate some special piece of gear?

Somewhere or another, surely in the mysterious far east, there must be one of these babies still extant, jealously guarded, perhaps considered too precious and rare to copy...or maybe it will just be a matter of time. [huh]

4065530427_5bd1f00372_o.jpg
 
Messages
10,600
Location
My mother's basement
Nah, don't need 'em. No one has yet gotten past the minefield.

Either I'm misreading your post or I need new eyeglasses. Or it could be that I'm just easily confused. But it looks like at least one and maybe two of the jackets in the first photo do not have button closures on the pockets. And then, it could be that they are indeed button closures but they aren't buttoned and the photo isn't clear enough for me to see the button holes on the flaps.
 
Messages
10,600
Location
My mother's basement
Also, the jacket on the guy on the right (on OUR, the viewers', right) certainly appears to have a snap at the bottom of the wind flap (is that the right term for it?) And the one on the left in the same photo looks to have something similar but not identical. Its placement appears to be different, anyway.
 

Fletch

I'll Lock Up
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8,865
Location
Iowa - The Land That Stuff Forgot
OK...
In the first pic, I see button flaps, unbuttoned, on the man at center (call him Lee Van Cleef). Man at right (call him Jim Belushi) has that high left pocket, seen in several pix of Securitys. If Security, reasonable assumption is button flaps.

Lt. Charles Howard in Security A-2

The "snaps" at the bottom of the windflaps - except for the one A-1 in the third photo - are all zipper rivets. They don't quite meet, as you can see on Belushi. In any case, they don't snap together and serve only to anchor the zipper halves.

Rivets and the metal tabs they secured were no longer used on zippers after about 1940, probably due to the costs of mass production. In the early '30s zippers of any kind were still very much a specialty item.

Eastman Werber 1729 repro alongside original
 
Messages
10,600
Location
My mother's basement
OK, I get it. But those rivets seem much more conspicuous on some jackets than others. Could it be that on some of them the rivet head was between the layers of leather?

Jus' speculatin', you know.
 

Danny L

New in Town
Messages
26
Location
So Cal High Desert
I'm gonna try and find some time to get back to the history office and look through their photos again to see if there are any I might have missed. Don't believe any of those have ever been published before.

I actually spent time and assigned to the 34th Bomb Sq at one time and the 31st Bomb Sq was my last assignment. The last photo is one of my favorites with the 31st skull and crossbones patches. Never seen that variation before with the bomb above the skull.

My Dubow 20960 is on the way from Goodwear and I'll be having a nice Wright Field patch to replicate Doolitte's jacket.

Maybe next time I'll replicate one of those jackets in the last photo. Wonder if JC will try a Security Aviation Togs jacket sometime. ;)
 

Fletch

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,865
Location
Iowa - The Land That Stuff Forgot
Thanks for being so understanding, Danny, considering I ganked these pix right off VLJ without even asking. :D
Of course, they really belong to the Air Force...so...
I hope you'll consider it a tribute to your dedicated detective work! ;)
 

CBI

One Too Many
Messages
1,418
Location
USA
Yes, love these photos. I am sure John Chapman would try this contract if he had an original to work from. I don't think he replicates from photos alone. I'll bet someday soon ...........................

I think quite a bit of this look is/could be achieved with his other jackets with a slightly roomier fit and some added details. But nothing beats a clone of a contract (except the real thing!)

:)
 

Stearmen

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,202
Thunderbirds

Great photos, expecially the second one! The Thunderbird patch, not to be confused with the Jet Jocks, is great with one of their Boing P-12s in the background. Kind of depressing though, I had a chance to buy a Pratt & Whitney R985 engine back in the late 80s cheap with low hours, turned it down, no where to store it at the time. Now with all the people I know, we could probably knock together a nice P-12! Like my mother always said, Couldve, Wouldve, Shoudve, but Didn't! I would settle for a nice replica jacket with the Thunderbird patch, maybe an A-1.
 

Nighthawk

One of the Regulars
Messages
257
Location
USA
Real McCoys Japan has done a Security Aviation Togs reproduction in the past, I'm not sure how accurate it is.

NH
 

Nighthawk

One of the Regulars
Messages
257
Location
USA
Here's the link (check out the pictures):

https://www.realmccoys.co.jp/catalog/products/detail.php?product_id=2160&pg=3

Here's the description translated courtesy of Google:

A-2 Deerskin "RAMROD" followed, Craftsmanship second series. Kip skin tanning industry mix Netherlands, finished in aniline oil well. Features a leather texture and clarity with detailed silver surface. Production and the carefully sewn directly operated factory only. Label stitched collar and waist and also finished in classic Didiru. Was a writer and pilot Antoine de Saint honor reset pages = Teguju "Santekkusu" named. With a serial number. Fitting a little latitude.
Pusukin: mixed chrome vegetable tannin tanning, aniline finish
■ lining / cotton 100%
■ Zipper / Pull bell Talon
■ Color / Brown Last

Again, I'm not sure how accurate it is to an original. But I have read elsewhere that the owner/s of McCoys's have an extensive collection of original jackets to base reproductions off of. Note that the tag says "McCoy's Aviation Togs". It's from their 2007 Fall/Winter collection. The title says its in kipskin and the description says deerskin. http://www.answers.com/topic/kipskin has the definition of kipskin. Perhaps its deer kipskin, I'm not sure if that's possible? What was the original Security Aviation Togs leather, goatskin or horsehide? Most sources state that military A-2s were made out of only goatskin or horsehide, and maybe cowhide, so I'm not sure the rationale of McCoy's when they did it in deerskin.

I had looked up info on this jacket last year because I was interested in a repro SAT A-2. Mainly, this is because it was the first A-2 contract, not because of looks, fit, etc. Hope this helps.

NH
 

Trapp72

New in Town
Messages
17
Location
Florida
I wish I had my grandfather's A2. That would be MY ideal A2 jacket. Of course, it would probably be one of the more common models than the early 30s versions.
 

Fletch

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,865
Location
Iowa - The Land That Stuff Forgot
Those RMJ jackets aren't even trying. They just rip off the label design.

There was a Buzz Rickson(?) jacket awhile back that used the Security label and A-2 tag but didn't look like any issued A-2. Didn't even have a windflap.

Kipskin, BTW, is from cattle too old to be calves and too small to be bulls/cows/steers. No deer involved, just good old Bos taurus.
 

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