One reason why I would never buy from LOST WORLDS..

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by Hawk_Eye, Mar 9, 2009.

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  1. feltfan

    feltfan My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,191
    Location:
    Oakland, CA, USA
    Gotta pipe up to agree with Hawk Eye.
    When you read a restaurant review, it's not
    just about the food. Unless you've bought a
    hat from Art Fawcett or a jacket from John Chapman
    or had a similar experience, you might not appreciate
    how much a good attitude (or talent of observation
    or intense fanaticism) can add to the creation process.

    I would like to support people who are doing the right
    thing. I don't want to be mistreated if I'm spending
    a lot of money on a very specific item. Part of the point
    of a review may be the quality of the product. But I also
    want to know in advance if the experience is going to be
    painful.

    Disclaimer: I have only tried to inquire about LW products once-
    never saw a response to my email.
     
  2. garzo

    garzo One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    259
    Location:
    Berlin
    I have to agree. I got to know Aero, Eastman, Gibson & Barnes and Wested through vintage leather jacket forums just like this one and I've had excellent service from all four of those companies. I might add that some of the best service I've ever had has been from Schott, another New York jacket maker. They may not specialize in vintage repros, but Schott's customer service staff (that'd be Gail) go far beyond the call of duty.
    I've checked out the Lost Worlds website and have read their tasteless writings and I have to agree with Hawk_Eye and commend him for pointing it out. That guy is exhibiting no class and just looking to offend potential buyers. There are plenty of other leather makers out there.
    I think it's fine for this site to praise great companies as well as call out sellers on their bad customer service or offensive practices. I certainly don't want to give my money to some company that disses people (and that includes all of us here on this board). There's enough of that garbage in radio, don't need it from jacket makers.
     
  3. john z

    john z Guest

    Hawk_Eye: I of course respect in return your right to your opinion. Just so happens it seems it's the polar opposite to mine. Outerwear is about clothes primarily.

    Besides whatever Stuart is or about makes no difference to my enjoyment of owning & wearing the jacket I bought from him. He, as a person makes no difference to what that jacket is in its own right as an item of clothing. Suffice to say it is without doubt of the highest quality in both materials & workmanship.

    It would seem to me that anyone who feels Stuart's unusual website ramblings are some sort of personal insult would be doing so from a place of insecurity.

    I don't suppose there's many, if anyone, on TFL can claim to really know the man so to launch into character assassinations here is exactly the kind of insulting behaviour he is being accused of. Only he's generalising, if guilty, & here it's aimed at him personally.

    Please don't for a minute think I have some affiliation with Stuart or his company. Its just that I find it rather sad & dispiriting when, because some guy expresses strange & controversial views on his site (which he has every right to) there seems to be this willingness to attack him from the safety of the pack. I guess in the overall scheme of things he's relatively harmless. For sure there are far worse in the World.

    Of course I agree, it is entirely up to you where you spend your money as it is myself & every other individual. I would hope though that, while taking on board others comments, everyone would make that decision based on what is right for them, as I did rather than for the wishes of another.

    I realise by continuing this debate I am undermining my own conviction that Outerwear is about the clothes, not the persons behind them so I intend to leave it here.

    This post is meant respectively & I trust it is received as such.
     
  4. feltfan

    feltfan My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    Location:
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    Let me just say I did not mean to imply that you should
    not enjoy your LW jacket. I hope it's clear that people are
    talking about the man and the service, not the product.
    Enjoy! I bet it is nice.

    There are extreme cases that make the argument clearer.
    There is an infamous hatter who has often made anti-semitic,
    anti-gay, or otherwise nasty and loony comments. I have
    heard both that his hats are good and also convincing argument
    that they are not so good. I am glad to know the caliber of the
    man because I'd never want to give such a guy any monetary
    support, especially when extraordinary fellows like Art and Graham
    are out there. Not saying Stuart is anywhere near that bad.
    But I do get a kick out of seeing John Chapman pursue his passion
    and be such a nice guy.
     
  5. Elmonteman

    Elmonteman One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    113
    I've purchased many jackets from Stuart over the years and for the most part they are fabulous. I've had more trouble from Aero than I have LW. If you love vintage stuff, especially jackets, Stuart and LW are to be treasured. No matter which forum you read, Lost Worlds is always mentioned among the handful of the elite jacket makers. I think it's important to remember that we won't always have him to kick around ;). Stuart's jackets and personality are unique. I wish there were more people crazy enough to put their hearts and souls into making jackets--even at the terrible price of not sharing their sense humor.
     
    cole 222 likes this.
  6. OneEyeMan

    OneEyeMan Practically Family

    Messages:
    514
    Location:
    United States
    I'm with Hawk Eye and others on this.
    From what I've read, Lost Worlds jackets are no better than those from Aero. Some say that the Horse Hide from Aero is the best in the business.
    Now consider the approx $300 extra you'd be paying for a Lost Worlds jacket.
    Now consider this Stu guy and his attitude.
    Is there any logical reason to purchase a Lost Worlds jacket given all this info?
    I think it's appropriate that he chose that quote by Goebbels "THE BIGGER THE LIE, THE MORE READILY PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE IT"
    To me, this means that the higher that he prices his jackets, the more people will believe that they're worth it.
    Lenny
     
  7. I Simonius

    I Simonius New in Town

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    UK
    I didnt get the impression that anyone was 'personally insulted' (perhaps I missed that bit) but it is certainly off-putting. ANY business that puts down others gets points against them, in my book..

    A subtle caveat is one thing but a rant is quite another. It actually smacks more of insecurity on the writers part, insecurity, sour grapes and possibly homophobia. So what? 'So what' indeed; but I'm not attracted to doing business with anyone who advertises themselves in such a way. That is what he's doing after all, advertising himself in a specific way. Presumably it works for him, in that he must be getting enough people who like that sort of approach to keep him in business. That's fine, good luck to him, his advertising is not to my taste although I do find it humorous, but having said that I did check out his jackets years ago and dismissed them not because of his writing but because there is insufficient room in the underarm cut for my shape and he won't ( or can't) make adjustments (so he told me when I enquired)

    The thing is you tend to get back what you give out. ;)
     
  8. Burnsie

    Burnsie Registered User

    Messages:
    267
    Location:
    Virginia
    As mentioned on VLJ: I did lots of homework several years ago before purchasing a repro A-2. I read the LW rants and decided not to got with them. Since that time I have purchased 3 A-2's from Aero and been very pleased with them. Minus the pointless LW diatribes I may have actually looked into the quality of their product...but now there's no need - Aero was happy to take my hard earned $ and I was happy to wear their jackets. All without being called a fairy or a queen!!!!!
     
  9. celtic

    celtic A-List Customer

    Messages:
    330
    Location:
    NY
    i remember reading that page awhile ago and really cracking up.

    his price would keep me from buying before his silly ranting.
     
  10. Edward

    Edward Bartender

    Messages:
    22,577
    Location:
    London, UK
    I own a LW B3, which I bought second hand from our own John Lever. The quality ofv the jacket is superb, and I enjoy wearing it, but I agree, customer service goes a long way. I certainly would be put off dealing with LW given the attitudes apparent from the website, especially the undignified and - to be frank - really rather childish way in which they are expressed. It does seem rather bizarre to me to be producing a product aimed at a specialist market, and then to denigrate that very market in those terms. [huh]
     
  11. Carlisle Blues

    Carlisle Blues My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,155
    Location:
    Beautiful Horse Country
    Guess he does not want my business

    [​IMG]

    courtesy of H
     
  12. *************
    When it comes to business we vote with our money and the question is then: are you willing to support them by spending with them?

    There is a line that you should not cross even when provoked. Attacking others is where it becomes an uncomfortable practice. It's one thing to promote one's product because of quality and details but attacking others is not often the best sales tactic. (Is this firm becoming the leather jacket maker version of the Soup Nazi from Seinfeild?)
     
  13. skippymchaggis

    skippymchaggis New in Town

    Messages:
    19
    Location:
    Virginia
    I don't take any offense at your post or your views. I don't agree with all of them, but such is the nature of living with other people.

    I do, however, feel the need to comment on the comment about insecurity.

    As you can tell from my post count and join date, I'm a lurker who hasn't been around very long. I'm not really into vintage fashion, although I appreciate style. I'm not even into flight jackets.

    So why am I here?

    A trusted friend, also not a vintage fashion guy or aviator jacket aficionado, pointed me here to get reviews of high quality leather jackets because I am into the concept of quality over quantity.

    I came here to read reviews (from complete strangers); see examples of various products; see how other people cared for their leather items; and then make a decision for myself. I made a decision and I made a purchase.

    I've done that a lot in different places around the web. I use the internet as a tool. There's a ton of information and a need for a lot of judicious filtering to sift what I believe to be reality from what other people share.

    I read what the Lost Worlds guy wrote as a slap in MY face not because I'm insecure, but because I dared to do some research. I'm not going to get into the bigoted and childish insults regarding masculinity. That man is a troll, and I don't need to feed him more than I have already.
     
  14. tonyb

    tonyb I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    9,404
    Location:
    My mother's basement
    You just gotta wonder what this fellow hopes to accomplish by posting all of that on his website. Does he not realize that he's telling would-be customers that his products have met with less-than-stellar reviews?

    And besides, as a politically correct cross-dressing eunuch who lives in his mother's basement, how am I not to take offense?
     
  15. One thing you have to admit is the guy is angry as hell about something he thinks is unfair. As such he is attempting to denegrate his attackers in a form he feels is deeming. However I don't think he knows his customer base, how many actual pilots and adventurers is he selling to versus people that think these are cool jackets and would like to have one?

    Another thing is that in the pursuit of historically correct aviator jackets it does seem that the variety of what was sent during war production varies a lot in color and other details. So when someone makes a jacket that is just like an original they based it on and then someone else shoots it down because it's not just like their original, that is guarenteed to drive you crazy.

    Still, it's like bad sportsmanship with the rant and attacks.

    I don't have a basement and mom's passed away. I wonder if he thinks I am preening online with other aviator jacket peacocks?
     
  16. bobjones

    bobjones A-List Customer

    Messages:
    315
    Location:
    The Big Apple
    Wow, Tonyb, you and I can start a club, I thought I was the only one, darn...
     
  17. Fletch

    Fletch I'll Lock Up

    I misread this as "Surely Outerwear is about the cliches".

    Which could be argued. But let's stay focused on the clothes, and, perhaps, on why some clothes people lose that focus.

    I own 3 LWs (all bought secondhand). My impression of them is that LW is not about you the wearer so much as about the craft and materials. Sometimes, they wear you. The idea, I think, is "here's quality - now get used to it."

    About the "crazy NY" vibe - which is something I have wide experience with. NY is a good place to learn excellence, especially if you care about nothing else. Excellence, traditionally, is uncompromising - it can encourage you to be uncompromising about other things, too, and about people. Juilliard and Wall Street waste a lot of talent; it's part of their system. New York too, really - once you fail or leave, there's nowhere to go but down.
     
  18. I Simonius

    I Simonius New in Town

    Messages:
    49
    Location:
    UK
    :eek: LOL:D

    I just read some of his stuff again and there too much unintentional ironic humour in there; could never take the guy seriously; but that wouldn't put me off getting a LW if it was what I wanted
     
  19. Fletch

    Fletch I'll Lock Up

    I see humor in Stu's screed, but it's dark humor. There's something very hard and unforgiving behind it - something that wants us to be a little harder and less forgiving, because it will make us lasting and reliable and real. Something that wants the best for us in a very important, but very narrow and limited way, and doesn't care what we go thru, or what we lose, getting there.
     
  20. Elmonteman

    Elmonteman One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    113
    (Is this firm becoming the leather jacket maker version of the Soup Nazi from Seinfei

    John from Covina you of all people should know better. I know you're a loyal supporter of the "Beer Nazi.". (Sam at the Stuffed Sandwich in San Gabriel, CA.) It's the same situation exactly. Sam has an excellent establishment and is a very salty character. He won't sugarcoat his opinions on anything. But what the heck do we care? The bottom line is that the beer and the grub are great! Sam loves to cook and loves good drink. Stuart at LW loves to make jackets and does a fine job! If you want free psychiatric care go somewhere else.....or maybe learn a lesson in compassion by respecting someone else's opinon even if it's not the same as yours.
     
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