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Discussion in 'General Attire & Accoutrements' started by Powerhouse, May 17, 2006.
looks like a 'sidcot' suit?
Since I'm mostly ignorant of the details of 1930s and 1940s suits, what is the difference in the pleat placement?
Would then like to learn more. Please educate. Was based on a pair from that period which were sent as "Oxford bags"
Will try and get it right in the next iteration.
Are the pockets slanted or on the side seam? Look slanted to me, which may be throwing off my estimate of where the pleats should be placed.
However, I would expect the front (closer to the fly) pleat to be further "forward", just slightly sideseam-wards of the hook you have on the waistband.
On the bags issue, TwoTypes has more info, but the features shown here are reminiscent of the American collegiate trousers of the middle 30s - all the bells and whistles of cinch adjustors etc. Oxford bags were a very much more simple affair. Their shocking quality was in their large dimensions, which were odd for the 20s.
Quickpost and discuss,
kryste, I hate being trendy.
many US members call the American 'collegiate' versions (examples below) 'Oxford bags' even though they might not be referred to as such in the literature.
therefore whether Luxire's pair are accurate depends on which version of the term you're using, the US or UK version.
(to me, they resemble the US version but don't appear to be wide legged enough).
For me, the waistband is too fancy for genuine Oxford bags, with the wide waistband and button down belt loops (which are, I believe, a detail from military trousers). However, I believe side adjusters were seen on original bags. I would also expect to see the pockets on the side seam if the originals were British 'Oxford Bags'.
They also look to be cut tighter on the seat than I would expect from original Oxford Bags.
The problem with identifying the original trousers, and their accompanying details, is that very few genuine examples exist. Even the county museum in Oxfordshire had to advertise to try to find an original pair but were unable to track any down. As such, the mythology surrounding them is vast, as well as being deeply entrenched and often misleading.
As others have mentioned this pair seem to resemble the American 'collegiate pants'. Part of the problem is that collegiate pants, with their flare from the seat, were a completely different beast from oxford bags, although their history seems to be intertwined. One day I will try to research the Oxford bags that were sold in American shops circa 1925 and see whether they were simply copies of the British trousers or whether they were closer to collegiate pants. The problem for me is that it appears that wide trousers had already been in fashion in some way in the early twenties in the USA among students so they actually have a parallel history. With Oxford Bags being the highest profile trouser, the name gets applied to too many different styles.
I would be interested to know the dimensions of the Luxire trousers and to see a side view of the trousers laid flat. Any photos of the originals would be interesting.
Luxire: the trousers that you were sent to copy would appear to actually have been a pair of what are sold as Oxford Bags by 'Some Like It Holy' (unless they are both copied from the same original):
I don't dislike these trousers: I like a wide waistband on a casual trouser. And I use those belt loops on some of my trousers. But I doubt if they were ever seen on genuine Oxford Bags.
We are a very particular bunch, so thanks for taking the well meaning criticism in stride. Whether your trousers are properly 'American Collegiate' or 'Oxford Bags,' I think they look very well made indeed. Thanks for trying to make these styles available on the marketplace.
Well said, Patrick.
Agreed. I think they are nice trousers, it's just that I am a bit of a stickler for precision on the subject of Oxford Bags (whilst I don't mind being less precise when discussing other items of clothing).
To be honest, I'm just pleased that someone is offering wide leg, high waisted trousers. And - depending on the width at the hem - these trousers, with a narrower waistband, no belt loops, pockets on the side seam would could be getting closer to original oxford bags.
The main thing is, was the client happy?
width at the thighs looks to be more of an issue with those above. I don't think my thighs would do those trousers any favours, as with most modern trousers!
Yes. That's why i wanted to know the dimensions and to see a full length side view, laid flat.
Thank you for the kind words Patrick.
The joy of making these clothes and of interacting with people passionate about them is immense.
TT: May be you are right about the Holy brand above. The one we received had the tag "Spaghetti Western"
Will try and get the bottom measurements tomorrow. May not have a full-length shot of them laid flat and they have been shipped. Will do that in the next iteration. These are ordered regularly.
To summarize: Bottom width of 24 or more; pleats moved a little towards the center, standard width waistbands, pockets on side seams, fuller at the seat.
These are do-able. Will make another iteration in January with these details. May be we can send one to the museum
'Spagheti Western' hardly sounds like a 1920s brand. More likely to be something from the 1970s when the bags name was once again applied to high waisted, wide legged trousers.
23/24 inch bottoms would be about right for a man of 6ft (according to contemporary sources). The super-wide Oxford Bags (32 inches or more) appeared very briefly in spring/summer 1925 but soon disappeared, leading trouser hems to settle down around 22 inches (which had been the width of oxford bags at the start of 1925).
Added a new Yorkshire Tweed Option at $119.99 for pants
Good opportunity to remake some of the vintage pants in an ideal 100% wool fabric
If you are looking for genuine colours for Oxford Bags, in 1925 the most popular colours were:
silver grey; yellow-pink; pale green; powder blue; ‘Bois de Rose’ (described as a “pinky-beigey-brown”); honey; brownish-orange; puce; magenta; jade; violet; lavender; ‘biscuit’; heliotrope; and emerald green.
(these are taken from newspaper articles on Oxford Bags in spring and summer 1925)
From the colors, am guessing that these were more "dressy" fabrics, fine worsted wool kind.
Were these light weight fabrics (6-8 Oz) or comparatively heavier at 12-13 Oz?
I don't know much about fabric weight for that period, however I would think that 13oz would have been the very minimum.
I don't recall any press account mentioning the weight of the trousers. Of course, to get a nice drape and for the cloth to hang properly, they would need to be fairly substantial.