Please disect this suit

[crazylegsmurphy]

Hey,

I know most of you saw this post in the other post, but I would really like to get your advice on this.

I think I'm starting to get an idea of what makes a good suit, but I'm terrified of 70's fashions and I don't want to accidentally show up looking like Larry the Lounge Lizard.

I would really like if you could break down this suit into what is good, and what is bad. Ya, I know it might be hard having it lay on the floor like that, I have to get someone to take a pic of me wearing it....but in the mean time.

 

[Wild Root]

You know, I’d be happy to help you out in how to avoid the 70’s look.

The suit you pictured isn’t bad for a modern Double breasted but it’s going to be hard to pass off as a 40’s style if that is your mission.

The double breasted suits of the 30’s and 40’s were cut to the figure more then today’s suits. The problem with modern suits today is the arm holes! They are way too big and give a potato sack look.

Also, the low cut six button is a very 1990’s look then to that of the 40’s. They had low cut DB’s in the 40’s, but they were four buttons only.

You could make that suit look old fashioned if you put a nice 1 ¾� cuff on the pants and wear vintage ties with it. Then you’ll make it look a little more 40’s.

What I say only is advice if you want a vintage look. If that’s not your goal, then tell me and I’ll help you put it together the way you want.

Cheers,

Root.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

The "V" shape of the buttons is what makes it look modern to my eye. Perhaps two of the buttons could be relocated? You would probably have to ask a tailor.

 

[Wild Root]

Good point bud! You know what, you could just get rid of the two top buttons and it will look a little better.

Look at these pictures it may help.

Root.

Note: The brown suit on the lower right is a four button DB. You may try and copy that look. Also the problem with modern DB suits is that the buttons are some what close to gether and not as far apart as the vintage DB suits.

 

[The Wingnut]

A GOOD tailor that knows what you're after will be able to resew the side and back seams to get the proper fitted look...you're kinda SOL with the big arm holes. Root's got the right idea, I'd go after the same look as the brown suit in the pic above, and get the buttons moved if it's possible to do without leaving a little hole where they were previously sewn on.

I had that dilemma with the first suit I bought, it was modern and not cut properly. When I asked if another buttonhole could be put in so I could use the upper rown of buttons, the tailor didn't understand and responded, 'That's the style of the suit.' ...as if it wasn't something anyone would want to change because that's how it was intended to look.

Knowledgeable tailors are hard to find, and usualy don't work cheaply...but they're worth the money if you can find them.

Weigh your options, and if it costs more to alter that suit than it would to buy something vintage (say, $300 maximum), just wear it as is and keep your eyes peeled for a vintage suit.

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

Thanks guys!

Ya, I can see what you are saying about the features that make it look modern. It is actually suprisingly tapered in the waist, but there is still something about it that makes me think 1990's Tom Cruise in Risky Business!

I actually have sewing skills, so I could alter this myself at no cost, but I'm not sure I am willing to put in that kind of work on this suit. I picked it up more so to see what you guys thought, not because it "spoke" to me.

I think I am going to return it. I really would like a brown sport coat like the ones I see Matt and Wild Root wearing. I like the way they have added ligher tan pants to the outfit.

Oh, and I see what you are saying about the arm holes. I was amazed last night at that prom I went too how badly most of the suits fit, simply because of that. Suits were even riding up when people were hugging or shaking hands.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I wouldn't worry too much about the armhole issue really. Obviously if you are having a suit made, it is something to make sure is taken care of, but for suits you already own there is really no point in worrying about it.

Sack suits were available back in the Golden Era too. The main problem is that the modern American/Italian look is sort of a fusion of the American Sack, with the British darted Blade and the slim Roman. Thus you end up with a suit which in many ways, has the worst elements of all three styles in it.

If you wanted the most authentic "modern" cut I would say just get a real American Sack suit from J Press, because then at least you don't have to worry about the usual melange of styles.

What I would look for if you want to find some modern suits for a vintage style is to focus on button stance and lapel width. Make sure the suit has a high button stance. (how far the buttons are placed up the coat) To me, this is almost always the thing first apparent about a modern suit. Second, look for a medium width lapel. The stingy 1960'sish lapels that are coming back in style right now look totally wrong for a 1940's suit.

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

By lapel you mean the "collar" in the front? So wider is basically older?

I can see on that pic above that the collar almost touches the shoulders. One thing I notice too is that the opening "V" of the suit seems really low on most of the suits I try on. On the picture they seem pretty high so very little of the tie is showing.

I can sew the buttons in different places, but I am starting to see what you are all talking about. Most of the suits I find have the buttons up near the top of the suit, and they form a "V", so by removing the top two buttons (on a 6 button jacket) and then bringing the two top ones in a tad, that would be better?

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Yes, the lapel is the sort of "collar" thing on the front of the suit jacket.

The "rules" for double-breasted suit lapels are sort of different than for single-breasted though. A double breasted suit will almost always have much larger lapels simply because of the way the suit is designed. In the 40's, lapels in general were larger than they are today thus you can see how in the illustrations they go further towards the shoulder than they do on your suit.

On a single-breasted suit, the general rule is that the lapel should go to about the halfway point between the end of the collar and where the sleeve starts. This can easily be played around with, depending on your personal preference. There were plenty of suits in the 20's-40's with large lapels and also many with smaller lapels.

And yes, on most vintage suits the button stance is high so there isn't a big "V" of shirt and tie showing in front. This is personally one of the things I like most about vintage suits, as I think it is more elegant and more flattering on practically all men.

Today, the high gorge (with the small "V" of shirt showing) is popular again. But most suit designers, rather than raise the button stance, simply make three (or even four) button suits where the third button is very high. It is better than having a low gorge, but not as good as it could be.

 

[Wild Root]

Good points made. But, the arm holes are more important then most would think. I hate to have coats ride up on me! That's what happens when the arm holes are way too big.

Here is some 40’s sport out fits for you to look at. I have seen some good looking suits at One Day suit broker and Burlington Coat Factory. There are some good Double breasted out there, just need to find them.

Some may think these are 30's because of the belted back coats, but this is from 1941 or so. It was still being worn in the 40's.

Root.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

True enough, Root. The thing is though, it is easier to find a decent looking modern suit with the right lapels and button stance than it is finding a suit cut to the Blade style with high-cut armholes and suppressed waist.

 

[Wild Root]

Sad it is, sad.

I agree with you 100%.

Root.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Hey Root, you reminded me of something.

On the WWII US service dress jackets, are the armholes cut really high? All of my US stuff is at my parents house at the moment and I can't remember exactly.

I know on my German feldbluse they are purposely cut high and small for ease of movement and also to aid the soldier in keeping the proper straight posture, but I never thought about whether or not the US stuff was the same way.

 

[MrBern]

Hmmm, hadnt really thought of the armhole issue. I've got a `42 enlisted man service coat handy....yes, its armholes are small & high.The waist is tapered. Its a 38L & you wouldnt be able to wear it if youre waist were more than a 32inches.
I'll have to check my Ike jkt when I get home...
-b

 

[Wild Root]

I have an original WWII 5th Airforce enlisted uniform and it's high cut! The coat is the proper length to that of a German's coat but the arm holes are samall like a suit coat of the time and the cut is nice and high!

I also have an Officer's Pinks and Greens and they're hight cut! Very tailored and classy! Love the US WWII uniforms!!!

Love that stuff!!!

Root.

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

So what can we do? Can they be tailored?

I really wish I had a vintage suit. If I did, I would pull that badboy apart and make a pattern for all of you to take to a suit person.....sigh.

 

[Wild Root]

you know, even if you did that, it wouldn't be the same. The fabric to day is still not as good as it was then and well, tailors will still not do a 100%.

Taking any suit apart is a big task! And it will never go back together the same way it was before.

What size are you any way? You may find vintage if you're not a monster like me. I'm 6'3" and I have lots of 30's and 40's stuff. But, if you're smaller, then you'll have an ez time.

arm holes can't be tailored in. You would have to reconstruct the arm hole and that can't be done with out extra fabric.

Root.

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

I am 5'11" with a 42 chest.

The thing is, I live in Canada, so it's really hard to find suits because it would seem that to find a good vintage suit, it would have to come from the States or the UK.

When I searched this city, I found a LOT of suits from the 60's - Today, but Vintage are nearly impossible. I have thought about Ebay, but I haven't found many that I would consider.

This is quite the frustrating hobby. I love the 30's /40's and I would very much like to start upping my style to look more classy and less like the typical redneck Calgarian.

 

[Wild Root]

You live in Canada? What part? I lived in Winnipeg MB for six months and I found a few vintage shops. It's getting hard to find but, NO one up there really wants the 30's and 40's stuff. I have found some good stuff up there in thrift shops too. You have to get out and find it all the time. You have to go to Estate sales and make friends with Antique dealers. They will help find stuff for you.

Size 42 isn't a bad size! It's lot easier to find then a size 44L.

Keep looking man, it's up there! Canada didn't burn all it's 30's and 40's clothes! There is a lot still around, just need to tap into the net work.

Root.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Size 42 isn't a bad size! It's lot easier to find then a size 44L.

Could be worse. I have a hard enough time finding NEW suits in size 46S, much less vintage.

Brad