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Schott Cafe Racer: 141 vs 641HH Fit and Sizing. My lesson from a disastrous purchase. Selling this cheap.

Britpopbism

New in Town
Messages
2
Hi, I'm a new member here, a 32-year old man from Indonesia.

I'm an Asian man of 172cm (5'8"); 66kgs (145.5lbs); and my chest size/pit-to-pit measurement is +/-94 cm (36-37 inches).

I'm just recently into motorcycle custom culture hobby, and found the importance of having a good quality leather jacket as one of the essentials. After saving for quite some time, I wanted to buy a quality leather jacket from Schott. There isn't any Schott store in Indonesia, but there's a local thriftstore company called @RedwingJ3 that provide services to merchandises overseas with offers of reduced tax prices etc.

I decided to use their services to buy my first Schott jacket.. Schott 141 Cafe Racer type leather jacket.. About the sizing, I did the dumbest thing, I went to that thriftstore company which also sells old/used line Perfecto Schott Jackets in SIZE 38 (it fits perfectly) and believed all the schott jackets will have the same sizes according to its tags.

Months and months I waited, after the jacket finally comes.. The sizing was awful and very disappointing... (you can even see my dissapointed look in the photo below) It didnt land well on my shoulders, and feels roomy unlike my expectations. The thriftstore company also didn't include the purchasing receipts and steer clear of any involvement after the purchase... So I'm left with a regretable oversized leather jacket as you can see in this picture with no hope of any return.

Lesson learned, it was my fault to order a Size 38 Schott 141 without a deep and careful studies of its sizing.. This jacket quality is awesome beyond what I've ever seen before, but the baggy size for my body has made it useless for me. I'm thinking of selling my brand new 141 jacket cheap.. maybe around 700 USD or below, as a damage control for my loss, exclude the shipping/tax prices (I live in Java, Indonesia).

Just now, a friend of mine are visiting NYC, and he offered to buy me another leather jacket, and I'm thinking of Schott 641HH (horsehide leather) with a slimmer fit... This time I've measured my chest/pit-to-pit size carefully, and also tried to check my measurements in Schott's Website.. I even emailed them about sizing in 641HH... All their responses are the same.. I should buy 641HH also in size 38.. (order one size larger)

Meanwhile, some commenters in some forums, also stated that they dont upsize their jacket.. So how do you guys think? Should I buy the 641HH in size 38 as the website recommends? Or keep it in my 141 true size --> 36 ? I am very anxious and worried of getting another useless oversized jacket...

Any help with answers are very much appreciated, you can also contact me if you're interested with my new 141 Jacket... We can talk discount prices. I just wanna get rid of this jacket with minimised loss... The sight of this 141 in my wardrobe even irritates me.
 

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TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead

One Too Many
Messages
1,969
36 chest, you need 141 size 34 or 641 size 36. That's my advice if you want a snug, tshirt only style fit (which is typical for cafe racer style). This style from Schott has deep gussets, almost action back, so you can go tighter with the measurements. If you think you might put on a few pounds or you need to layer with hoodie, etc., you can probably go up one size.

The 141 is naked hide. Very soft, easy to break in, drapes well. I don't ride, but from what I heard, this kind of jacket is not good for riding, more for fashion.

The 641 regular and horsehide version have very thick top coat. Will take years and years to get as soft as the 141. But better for riding.

So it depends on what you need it for basically. I've had 3 or 4 jackets with 100 series leather. I think it's awesome. Very underrated on these forums. The 600 series gets nice over time.
 

Damon141

A-List Customer
Messages
475
I’ve had some disappointing fitting jackets myself and my next will be custom because of this.
But I will say if you want to stay with the Schott brand, I have have personally had the Schott 654vn and the Schott 530 which are both a far slimmer cut jacket. Especially the 654vn.
The 141 is a fuller fitting jacket according to Schott
 
Messages
14,985
Hi!

Schott, together with many other makers will, as a rule, recommend that you buy the closest available size which measurements are higher than the numbers you have obtained by measuring yourself.

Reason for this is simple; Less chance of a return. It's a safe bet. For mostly everybody involved.
Majority of men wear their clothes the wrong size and will thus believe that a slightly baggy leather jacket is a perfect fit for them, as it feels nice and doesn't look bad. Because leather jackets look good.

Case in point; Your jacket. Literally 99% of bikers wear their leathers the exact same way. I mean, the article on Gear Patrol, the jacket fits the author nearly exactly the same as it does you. . .

But anyhow, the 641/141 is slightly over-sized to begin with - All Schott jackets are, in my opinion - thus I personally would get either model in a size 36. One size down method has never failed me with Schott (or Vanson or most other OTR makers).
 

MrProper

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,404
Location
Europe
I mean, the article on Gear Patrol, the jacket fits the author nearly exactly the same as it does you. . .
I guess this jacket is supposed to look like that. Because the sleeves are not too long, rather they should not be shorter, which could happen with a smaller size, right?

I also do not think that the jacket of the OP is a complete failure. It is baggy, but I have seen much worse.
For motorcycling it could be ok.
 

Britpopbism

New in Town
Messages
2
Thankyou all for the kind and informative responses, very noteworthy, I'm glad to find this community.. Really lighten up my mind. I think I've had too much expectations regarding how Schott jacket would look and fit.. But yes, I should study more of the sizing of the 641HH vs the 141 from the measurements that Schott just emailed back to me.. Anyway thankss MrProper and Monitor for mentioning that.. But still I think I had to sell this one to afford the 641HH, I hope someone would be interested in this one
 

navetsea

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,838
Location
East Java
hello fellow indonesian :) welcome to the forum, I do think your sleeve length is at the correct length if not already at in the slightly shortish side if you ride I assume from the style of the jacket something you would reach forward hunching over the tank position, and since you probably would wear it over some padding protection underneath won't that take some of that extra room when you wear it to ride? maybe tapering the biceps down to wrist to better fit more slender asian arm might already solve your problem? anyway good luck with the hunt and be safe with the new hobby!
 

Guppy

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,892
Location
Cleveland, OH
I don't think the jacket you have looks like it is a bad fit. I'd like to see how it looks zipped up though. But I think you could keep it. Could you wear a 36 as well or better? Perhaps, but this is hardly a disaster. It may be that in Indonesia the prevailing attitudes about fit differ and so your expectations are for a tight fit like a super hero costume, I don't know.

If you want to try a different sizem my advice is keep it simple, don't change the model. That introduces doubt. Stick with the 141 and get a 36, and you'll know what to expect. I don't know whether the 641 is cut different - - I thought it was the same pattern, just in a different leather, though. The first digit in the model number designates the leather type, and the rest of the numbers are the same, so I would think that it would be the same jacket, including the sizing.
 

Manolito

New in Town
Messages
23
The 1XX Schott Jacket are usually wide fits (think 141, 184, 118) and the 6XX are tighter. I own a 141 true to my 38 size, and yes it is not a super slimmy fit, but i like it enough and it is way more confortable than some other slimmer models from other brands which look cool for taking a picture in your backyards, but feel really snug when you try to move (i am looking at you Aero Cafe Board Racer).

I never put the 141 liner which I find not confortable and useless...

Your pictures are not disasters, they look like the classic look of the Schott 141...
 

Gr8Lakes

Familiar Face
Messages
54
Location
Mid-Michigan, USA
The 1XX Schott Jacket are usually wide fits (think 141, 184, 118) and the 6XX are tighter. I own a 141 true to my 38 size, and yes it is not a super slimmy fit, but i like it enough and it is way more confortable than some other slimmer models from other brands which look cool for taking a picture in your backyards, but feel really snug when you try to move (i am looking at you Aero Cafe Board Racer).

I never put the 141 liner which I find not confortable and useless...

Your pictures are not disasters, they look like the classic look of the Schott 141...
x2… I just spoke with Schott NYC on Wednesday about sizing differences between 141 and 641. A 46” 141 popped up used, at a decent price, and I wanted to snag it. Glad I made the call to Schott. According to Schott NYC, the 641 is built one size narrower than 141.

With a 44” chest exactly, Schott said I’d do well with a 46” model 641, or a 44” model 141. A 46” model 141 jacket would only be good for layering in cold weather, and pretty useless for summer riding. Glad I did my diligence.

Now, that said, anyone want to part with a black 141 size 44, or 641 size 46? (Preferably 641). :)
 
Last edited:

regius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,183
Location
New York
Hi, I'm a new member here, a 32-year old man from Indonesia.

I'm an Asian man of 172cm (5'8"); 66kgs (145.5lbs); and my chest size/pit-to-pit measurement is +/-94 cm (36-37 inches).

I'm just recently into motorcycle custom culture hobby, and found the importance of having a good quality leather jacket as one of the essentials. After saving for quite some time, I wanted to buy a quality leather jacket from Schott. There isn't any Schott store in Indonesia, but there's a local thriftstore company called @RedwingJ3 that provide services to merchandises overseas with offers of reduced tax prices etc.

I decided to use their services to buy my first Schott jacket.. Schott 141 Cafe Racer type leather jacket.. About the sizing, I did the dumbest thing, I went to that thriftstore company which also sells old/used line Perfecto Schott Jackets in SIZE 38 (it fits perfectly) and believed all the schott jackets will have the same sizes according to its tags.

Months and months I waited, after the jacket finally comes.. The sizing was awful and very disappointing... (you can even see my dissapointed look in the photo below) It didnt land well on my shoulders, and feels roomy unlike my expectations. The thriftstore company also didn't include the purchasing receipts and steer clear of any involvement after the purchase... So I'm left with a regretable oversized leather jacket as you can see in this picture with no hope of any return.

Lesson learned, it was my fault to order a Size 38 Schott 141 without a deep and careful studies of its sizing.. This jacket quality is awesome beyond what I've ever seen before, but the baggy size for my body has made it useless for me. I'm thinking of selling my brand new 141 jacket cheap.. maybe around 700 USD or below, as a damage control for my loss, exclude the shipping/tax prices (I live in Java, Indonesia).

Just now, a friend of mine are visiting NYC, and he offered to buy me another leather jacket, and I'm thinking of Schott 641HH (horsehide leather) with a slimmer fit... This time I've measured my chest/pit-to-pit size carefully, and also tried to check my measurements in Schott's Website.. I even emailed them about sizing in 641HH... All their responses are the same.. I should buy 641HH also in size 38.. (order one size larger)

Meanwhile, some commenters in some forums, also stated that they dont upsize their jacket.. So how do you guys think? Should I buy the 641HH in size 38 as the website recommends? Or keep it in my 141 true size --> 36 ? I am very anxious and worried of getting another useless oversized jacket...

Any help with answers are very much appreciated, you can also contact me if you're interested with my new 141 Jacket... We can talk discount prices. I just wanna get rid of this jacket with minimised loss... The sight of this 141 in my wardrobe even irritates me.
Hi and welcome! My understanding is this 141 you bought is new?I know Schott has revised the 141 pattern around 2011, maybe earlier. I had one of their previous pattern in 2008, which is what the Gear Patrol website guy wears, it has a room back and very wide shoulders, but short arms. It is how it’s supposed to look, this pattern was revised yet from its predecessor in the 90s, which was the baggy (relaxed) fit era. After 2011, they make the body and arms slimmer. The 641H didn’t seem to change. So I think a 141 36 should fit better, but the key is to compare the arm length of your 38 and a 36. If your friend can physically measure it at the Elizabeth street store, it’d be best. The store guys are quite helpful.
 

regius

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,183
Location
New York
The beauty of the 141, old pattern or new, is the action back and gusset really help forward and upward movement a LOT. So when I had my baggy fit 141, the sleeve cuff stops exactly at my wrist joint, for most jackets this is not enough, but with the 141, I was able to hang on to the subway rail without the cuff retracting at all. Therefore, if you just want a slimmer body, chances are 36 can work. But the 38 is totally fine for a 141 (even after the 2011 revision, it never became a Aero board racer type or Lewis fit).
 

Carlos840

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,621
Location
London
The 1XX Schott Jacket are usually wide fits (think 141, 184, 118) and the 6XX are tighter. I own a 141 true to my 38 size, and yes it is not a super slimmy fit, but i like it enough and it is way more confortable than some other slimmer models from other brands which look cool for taking a picture in your backyards, but feel really snug when you try to move (i am looking at you Aero Cafe Board Racer).

I never put the 141 liner which I find not confortable and useless...

Your pictures are not disasters, they look like the classic look of the Schott 141...

That's not actually true, they are not tighter, they are labeled one size down.
A size 42 641 will be the exact same pattern as a size 40 141, you can achieve the same fit in both models just by wearing a different tag size.
That is IMO not the same as a jacket that is actually "tighter" ie using a slimmer pattern.
 

JRobb

New in Town
Messages
1
x2… I just spoke with Schott NYC on Wednesday about sizing differences between 141 and 641. A 46” 141 popped up used, at a decent price, and I wanted to snag it. Glad I made the call to Schott. According to Schott NYC, the 641 is built one size narrower than 141.

With a 44” chest exactly, Schott said I’d do well with a 46” model 641, or a 44” model 141. A 46” model 141 jacket would only be good for layering in cold weather, and pretty useless for summer riding. Glad I did my diligence.

Now, that said, anyone want to part with a black 141 size 44, or 641 size 46? (Preferably 641). :)
I’ve got a 46 641. Shot you a PM.
 
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